sarbanes-oxley, of course, referring back to the post-enron scandal issues. what concerns do you have with this new law? >> well, reasonable people can disagree about sarbanes-oxley and a number of other revisions in this bill. there are good things and bad things. but what's really fundamental is this bill undoes what has been the key overarching principle of our system of securities regulation for 80 years or more. and that key principle is justice brandeis's rule that sunlight is the best disinfectant, electricity the best policeman. we let people take high risk, but we compel disclosure to them. that is about to change because under the jobs act we're retreating from this principle of transparency and we're allowing a large number of companies-- some of them quite sizable with potentially billions in assets to sell stock to the public and then cut off all further disclosures because under this statute as long as you do not have 2,000 shareholders of record-- and i stress the words "o record"-- there's no obligation to say anything more to them. you can ma

it was never really the intention originally of sarbanes-oxley to try to make it extremely costly forcompany to have an ipo. and this thing is just trying to enable companies to get a little bigger before they have to have an ipo that they can attract some investors. i think overall, that's probably pretty good. >> so you know, the concern, i think, a lot of people have had and for those who are watching previously there had had been, you know, a sort of conflict of interest inside of investment banking firls, where a lot of the -- firls, where a lot of the -- firms, where a lot of the investment advisors, the investor used to make decisions about investments, were separated, and now this tears down that separation wall, so that those who end up making decisions may end up relying upon the advice of those inside, in-house. is that not a conflict that concerns you? >> no, i mean, as i say, there are some concerns. the thing that came out of some of the shenanigans of the late '90s and the 2000s were analysts inside of the banks kind of touting the stocks that they were governing the ip

the other thing you mentioned is it tears down part of sarbanes-oxley.any goes public, for five years after they go public they don't have to do in accounts under sarbanes-oxley. >> it also expands the category of those that don't have to register with the s.e.c. so there's now all sorts of ways in which you can raise capital. william black joins us now, senior regulator during the savings and lone scandals, and author of the book "the best way to rob a bank is to have one." good to have you. >> thank you. it's great to be on. >> why are you so concerned about it. >> well fundamentally what this is doing is taking to the world of equities the shadowed banking system, what it did in the world of debt, and we've just seen what creating opaqueness does in the world of debt. it produces a global disaster. >> could i -- sorry. let me just translate that. so what you're saying. what you're saying is the financial crisis was a sort of essentially jeguess stated -- a the derivatives market. >> you're saying it's going to move the same sorts of things. just so pe

we have dodd-frank, sarbanes-oxley. they're talking about transactions and the volcker rule, the buffett rule gets to private equity. it would harm the economy. the financial system is at the heart of commit. i want to talk first trust is a money manager. we have about $55 billion under management in little wheaton, illinois. so we follow obviously where tax rates are going, what might happen in the future very closely. i want to back up just a second because what really matters what wh we look into the future is the level of spending that the federal government is doing today. it's at 24% of gdp. we have never balanced the budget in the last 60 years when spending was over 19.5% of gdp. not once have we been able to balance the budget. and that's because when spending goes over that kind of level, it harms growth, reduces tax receipts, then the calls for higher tax rates come in and it's a vicious downward spiral. we get virtuous upward spirals when we cut spending and that's what reduces pressure on higher tax rates.

the sarbanes-oxley has a law where the ceo of a company and the chief financial officer has to sign off on the financial statements and they are personally liable. >> yep. >> why not when it comes to foia, where you have an agency official who clarly has a self-interest, because you're investigating agency corruption and the word is out we're not going to fulfill these requests unless we're absolutely forced to, why not make the senior agency person personally liable for not fulfilling a foia request? maybe not for all, but when it involves agency corruption, why not have something similar to sarbanes-oxley? is that completely impossible? i know it hasn't been part of the debate, but you have that model now. >> part of the issue is often the front person, not the decisionmaker, is who signs now, right? so are we going to make the head of the agency sign the foia response letters? because as a practical matter that's in part one of the reasons why the earliest sanctions i spoke of, of getting that court order that went nowhere, you know, then the question is well, who's the responsible o

>> sarbanes-oxley is specifically designed for this kind of event.arbanes-oxley, you it your these over to the audit committee that the hires a blue chip law firm frrm outside. they decided to not use wilky far, that law firm and a forensic investigator immediately get solved. the sec only deals with them. that's how you're able to root out corruption. this is was without a doubt if the times is right such a violation of sarbanes-oxley that the justice department can have a field day if they want to. >> we should also point out although it happened in mexico, there is a long-standing law, the foreign corrupt practices act. that's what knelt bribery overseas even if it's accepted practice in mexico, it's a violation of u.s. law and this is a u.s. corporation. >> two weeks ago, a major executive from a company called kbr which had been part of halliburton was actually sentenced to 30 months. the investigation began 2003. turns out that that company made payments to nigeria to get a very big liquefied natural gas plant. guys going to jail for three year

sarbanes-oxley may make sense for some of these larger companies, but having the same rules for these little companies just didn't make sense. now there's an onramp that allows companies that are under $1 billion of revenue, under $700 million in market valuation and only for a period of up to five years to essentially slide into that process of being fully comply it with sarbanes-oxley. there's still a lot of disclosure requirements and people investing in these companies still have sufficient investor protection. that was the key balance. how do you provide capital to entrepreneurs so they can grow faster, create jobs, innovate faster while protecting investors whether it be with crowd funding or the ipo onramp. >> i like it. it makes a lot of sense. and i hope we get those business start-ups. steve case, thank you very much. great to see you again. >>> coming up on "kudlow," more positive data today on chain store sales. but markets still fear the end of fed stimulus. and i do think the markets are wrong. to me, less fed, king dollar becomes a tax cut that can lift all stocks. i wa

we've got to repeal sarbanes oxley, dodd-frank, obamacare. we have a long list. [applause] i want to take the top tax rate that americans pay and i want that about 20% of where it is now. how will i pay for it? i will limit the deductions, particularly for high income folks so that the high-income folks pay the same share they now appeared on not looking to lower taxes on the wealthy, as the democrats always charge. they will share the -- pay the same burden a share now. but by lowering the marginal tax rates, that helps small business. instead of paying 35% tax rate, they will pay more. these are the kinds of things small businesses need to do to grow and add jobs. we have to understand that we are in competition. i am told that your time is up and my time is up. we are in competition for jobs. we are in competition for the best jobs. we want to rising incomes. we want our economy to be so strong. and by the way, that means all of our businesses, to be so strong that they will form the strongest military in the world. we want to have the best schools in the worl

those are oxley more representative of hot button issues.ghter even more friendly debate that goes on when you listen to the hours of it that are part of putting this kind of legislation through. both parties see the value of the women's vote. both think that it will in fact be very important, not only for the races that i be volv members of congress but certainly the presidential race. so there are very strong feelings about this. democrats believe this has been too politicized with some of the issues that they want to do to adjust this law that otherwise has been very widely supported and republicans, as you heard for mccain, feel they are being sort of unfairly tarred with this notion of not being supportive of women. it really boils down to your perspective and there are lots of nuances in some of these arguments. that is often is hidden story of what is happening when they're battling out legislation. they announced there will be a vote today, much more friendly tone. when we peek in on it, we can get a we are sense of how they're worki

oxley we know the numbers here. but he goes on to say, and it gets hard to argue that we're not a tribal society at that point, a.b. >> well, i think that you're at a candidate that was the, considered the most electable in a weak field. mitt romney is not a candidate the republican party is terribly excited about. and because his last name, as popular as he is and different as he is from his brother, it is a risk to put a bush on the ticket. period. for the republican party in this election. they really have a shot here. they're going to rally behind this candidate that they certainly did not love and wouldn't have chosen had he not just been the most electable. but jeb bush would really create an opening for the democrats that the republicans don't want to give them right now. >> let me switch to the other topic. the president will focus on young people, student loans, and some of the cuts that we could see that could potentially, michael, affect a lot of people. i know your kids will be heading off to college. th

so oxley, support for higher education and thus student loans.he utility of student loans. there's the paul ryan budget which by one estimate would cut $170 billion over ten years from the pell grant program. and there's this statement by congresswoman virginia fox who not only sits on the house education and work force committee but also, chairs its subcommittee on higher education. >> i have very little tolerance for people who tell me that they graduate with $200,000 of debtor even $80,000 of debt. because there's no reason for that. >> ryan and fox aren't the only ones dismissive of why so many young men and women feel the need to take on debt. here's the man they hope will be the leader of the free world on the topic. >> i know it would be popular to say i'll give you government money to make sure to pay for your college. i won't promise that. what i'll tell you, shom around, get a good price. >> back with us now, professor dice object. one of rick santorum's elite snobs. a student loan is quite oxley a sound investment for the country. why

now only 20% because of cost and complexity of the sarbanes-oxley.nes-oxley makes sense, having the same rules apply to walmart and apply to a small company doesn't make sense. the j.o.b.s. about the recognizes that and puts an on ramp in place. companies wouldn't have gone public now can. that's particularly important. some companies don't wait until later in the life cycle and they get sold. investors get tired, want their capital back. then job growth decelerates. 92% job growth happens after companies go public. this on ramp is important and we struck the right balance giving aunt tra pra near what's they need to grow and protect investors in a balanced way. >> thank you. i'm ali velshi with this week's "fortune brainstorm." >>> and everybody loves free stuff, and that's what we have today in gaming and gadgets. our technology expert marc saltzman joining us skype with five free smartphone and tablet apps worth grabbing for the spring. hi, marc. happy easter and passover weekend. if you are going on a road trip, and you don't want to pay for a gp

if duke and former ceo lee scott at that moment had simply obeyed sarbanes-oxley and turned it over to audit committee for a full-blown outside investigation by a forensic investigative accounting firm as well as a big-time can't be swayed international law firm, then the problems might have stopped right there. but the times is very clear that walmart considered and rejected that course of action, choosing to handle it internally. guys, that's not how it's done. under sarbanes-oxley, it's easy to make a case right there against both management and conceivably the audit committee itself for dropping the ball, for letting that happen. second, it doesn't take too much of a leap of faith to think that the justice and the s.e.c. can say walmart hid a material matter from the public. given that mexico is walmart's largest international market, that alone could be worth prosecuting, particularly because lee scott, ceo, was still on the board, and mike duke, the vice chairman directly in charge at the time, so now running the place. if either had left the company, it could be a different stor

oxley, this is a part of this country that i am from.omes for yourself at the bottom of the screen. >> this circulation -- >> as i'm at something on 5 right now. do you see who i'm talking to? >> hang on for a second, mark. carl, are you there? >> yes, i am. >> okay. tell me about what we're seeing. >> this circulation is on the southeast side of town. so this is very close to the intersection of 45 and 20. and that is near hutchins. it is now moving north northeast at 20 miles an hour. we have language now in the new warning from the dallas weather service office. this is a tornado emergency for dallas and hutchins. take shelter immediately. what do we mean by that? we mean, get to the lowest floor in your home or your business. you want to put as many walls between and you the outside as possible. you want to cover your windows. get into an area with a small. a wall space such as a closet or a bathroom. something like. that we have seen a lot of damage debris at least from afar. we haven't seen it up close. we've seen a lot of debris i

we have starbanes oxley. the buffett rule in a way also gets to private equity and capital, so it would harm the economy because the financial system's at the center of the economy. i want to talk real briefly as a participant in the financial markets. first trust is a money manager. we have about $55 billion under management in wheaton, illinois. we follow where tax rate rs going. what might happen in the future very closely. i'm going to back up just a second because what really matters is when we look into the future is the level of spending that the federal government is doing today. it's at 24% of gdp. we have never balanced the budget in the last 60 years when spend i spending was over 19.5% of gdp. not once have we been able to balance the budget and that's us

for our economists group in this 2013 proposed budget is that the ten-year review of the sarbanes oxley rules will fall about that time. there will be an enormous amount of economic work that needs to be done in connection with that. >> can you dify up the rules, the other four commissioners different

the sarbanes-oxley act really required companies to take a look at their internal controls and accounting practices and when they started taking a look they saw there were some unaccounted for funds that might have been going to foreign officials. so really in the past four or five years, enforcement has ramped up to unprecedented levels. >> and we're going to open up our phone lines for a discussion with you. certainly walmart is in the headlines and has been in the past week since the "new york times" wrote the story. the charlie savage piece story "with walmart claims, greater attention on the law." we'll get your questions and comments. if you want to comment on the walmart story you're welcome to do that or the avon story we just showed you. if you'd like to learn more about the lie and how it's applied over time, join us in the conversation here. here's a quote from twitter from someone who is named freelancer who writes "we have laws that govern these type of issues. the problem is the gop enfor enforcement of the laws, the gop didn't apply itself to its buds," meaning buddies. the

that is sarbanes-oxley.hey seemed to have completely ignored the protocol. >> there was a protocol to the internal affairs department and they changed the protocol. >> all of this is based on what seems to have been many months of new york times reporting. i would have loved to understand the whistle blower who was at the center of the payments. why seven or eight years later did he and i'm assuming he was the main source, why did he come forward so many years later? i would love to understand why he made that decision so many years later. >> you cover wal-mart better than anyone else in the world. is this a truly despised company where a motivated justice department gets a call from president obama today saying i read the new york times. you open an investigation about these guys? >> i don't think it's a truly despised company at all. personally, i don't think that's the case. it's complicated like everything else. wal-mart is thefore front of so many things in the country be the largest private employer he

it rolls back elements of dodd-frank, roles downtown sarbanes-oxley, important regulations, some of thedid after the global settlement. all of these things democrats they areoretically have worked for and now it goes out the window. it doesn't make sense. >> i have never seen any real evidence that those rules prevent capital formation despite the rhetoric, the talk from the other side, never seen one piece of evidence that substantiates their view. >> the best excuse they have given for why they need to eliminate this independent accounting rule is that it costs too much to hire accountants. are you really going to invest in a company that can't afford to hire an independent accountant? that doesn't make sense. that shows you how dishonest the law is. >> maybe they should have told that to the victims of the mad madoff ponzi scheme. rolling stone contributor, matt taibbi, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you very much eloit. >> my view, a tale of two bankers. >>it is an independent progressive voice and i love that. >>jennifer granholm joins current tv. a former two term gover

spoken to a lot of people who say this is an open door for fraud this rolls back a bunch of sarbanes oxley tight security laws and allows companies to not report a lot of a lot of accounting and auditing things for years after going public companies make a billion dollars and allows pump and dump schemes and things that created enron and worldcom to happen to happen again is something like this and that positive or negative well it's hard to tell on this one of those jobs and i am no expert on what is in there and what the the the outcomes will be often with you with pieces of legislation like this there are unintended consequences and you think you're solving one problem but you're but are good friends in the congress or creating another so i don't know i would just like us to take a deep breath and step backward here as a country and that we have we're going to have of election here very shortly and i'm hopeful that whoever is elected whether it's president reelected or governor romney by the way i support him but i disagree with him on some of his trying to resurrect and our congression

the end of two thousand and ten now here are some examples so you have former congressman michael oxley former chairman of financial services committee now he's a lobbyist some of his clients include now dak thompson reuters trent lott the former senate majority leader lobbying firm clients include citi group goldman sachs g.e. great the on another example of you richard gephardt house majority leader formerly now the firm that he works for clients include boeing goldman sachs g b that so jack abrams off when you have these guys as you kind of started to get into before the break going from washington to lobbying for the financial services sector what exactly does that i need companies what do they get with that it's the it's the connections here is the connections the access but it's also the expertise there are people of immense importance the german of that you put up on the screen are obviously incredibly powerful but there are only three among the many that you mention by the way it's not just again this sector this is happening in every sector revolving door soon so quickly in was

>> it rolls back to elements of dodd-frank, roles back sarbanes-oxley, important regulations, some ofdid obviously after the global settlement. all of these things democrats have worked for over the past deck aide and now it goes out the window. it doesn't make sense. >> i have never seen any real evidence that those rules prevent capital formation despite all of the rhetoric. >> right. >> from the other side never seen one piece of evidence that sbstaniates their view. >> the best excuse they have given for why they need to eliminate this independent accounting rule is that it costs too much to hire account ants. you are really going to invest in a company that can't afford to hire an independent accountant? >> right. >> that doesn't make any sense at all. that shows you how starched the law isdishonest the law is t. >> maybe they should have told that to bernie made-off's victims. rolling stone contributing editor editor,matmat. coming up, my view, a tale of two bankers. [ growls ] lucky for me your friends showed up with this awesome bone. hey! you guys are great. and if you got yo

>> that save us sarbanes oxley which cost americans billions in paper work but did not prevent madoff'sud for the next bubble. >> the economy in crisis, big banks in a death spiral. >> banks make bad decisions. it makes sense that you should have a rule to stop that. >> no. >> but what about that cayman building? doesn't it suggest tax fraud. thousands ever companies are registered here. >> it has nothing to do with taxes. in delaware, there is buildings that have ten times or a hundred times as many registered companies. >> it is true. companies register themselves in delaware because delaware has simpler rules. i once started a business there in just one week. >> fox t-shirts. fox hats. great stuff here. >> i could have ridge r. registered my stand even faster in the caymans. >> whey set out to do was to design a system that was market responsive and fast. >> don seymour helped create the simple rules. it takes just ten pages to register a hedge fund and the simple rules work. >> look at our track record. just in the past decade we have been true the crisis of 2000, 2004, and the most

>> that save us sarbanes oxley which cost americans billions in paper work but did not prevent madoff'sud for the next bubble. >> the economy in crisis, big banks in a death spiral. >> banks make bad decisions. it makes sense that you should have a rule to stop that. >> no. >> but what about that cayman building? doesn't it suggest tax fraud. thousands ever companies are registered here. >> it has nothing to do with taxes. in delaware, there is buildings that have ten times or a hundred times as many registered companies. >> it is true. companies register themselves in delaware because delaware has simpler rules. i once started a business there in just one week. >> fox t-shirts. fox hats. great stuff here. >> i could have ridge r. registered my stand even faster in the caymans. >> whey set out to do was to design a system that was market responsive and fast. >> don seymour helped create the simple rules. it takes just ten pages to register a hedge fund and the simple rules work. >> look at our track record. just in the past decade we have been true the crisis of 2000, 2004, and the most

>> that save us sarbanes oxley which cost americans billions in paper work but did not prevent madoff'sor the next bubble. >> the economy in crisis, big banks in a death spiral. >> banks make bad decisions. it makes sense that you should have a rule to stop that. >> no. >> but what about that cayman building? doesn't it suggest tax fraud. thousands ever companies are registered here. >> it has nothing to do with taxes. in delaware, there is buildings that have ten times or a hundred times as many registered companies. >> it is true. companies register themselves in delaware because delaware has simpler rules. i once started a business there in just one week. >> fox t-shirts. fox hats. great stuff here. >> i could have ridge r. registered my stand even faster in the caymans. >> whey set out to do was to design a system that was market responsive and fast. >> don seymour helped create the simple rules. it takes just ten pages to register a hedge fund and the simple rules work. >> look at our track record. just in the past decade we have been true the crisis of 2000, 2004, and the most sev

>> that save us sarbanes oxley which cost americans billions in paper work but did not prevent madoff's the next bubble. >> the economy in crisis, big banks in a death spiral. >> banks make bad decisions. it makes sense that you should have a rule to stop that. >> no. >> but what about that cayman building? doesn't it suggest tax fraud. thousands ever companies are registered here. >> it has nothing to do with taxes. in delaware, there is buildings that have ten times or a hundred times as many registered companies. >> it is true. companies register themselves in delaware because delaware has simpler rules. i once started a business there in just one week. >> fox t-shirts. fox hats. great stuff here. >> i could have ridge r. registered my stand even faster in the caymans. >> whey set out to do was to design a system that was market responsive and fast. >> don seymour helped create the simple rules. it takes just ten pages to register a hedge fund and the simple rules work. >> look at our track record. just in the past decade we have been true the crisis of 2000, 2004, and the most sever

>> that save us sarbanes oxley which cost americans billions in paper work but did not prevent madoff's the next bubble. >> the economy in crisis, big banks in a death spiral. >> banks make bad decisions. it makes sense that you should have a rule to stop that. >> no. >> but what about that cayman building? doesn't it suggest tax fraud. thousands ever companies are registered here. >> it has nothing to do with taxes. in delaware, there is buildings that have ten times or a hundred times as many registered companies. >> it is true. companies register themselves in delaware because delaware has simpler rules. i once started a business there in just one week. >> fox t-shirts. fox hats. great stuff here. >> i could have ridge r. registered my stand even faster in the caymans. >> whey set out to do was to design a system that was market responsive and fast. >> don seymour helped create the simple rules. it takes just ten pages to register a hedge fund and the simple rules work. >> look at our track record. just in the past decade we have been true the crisis of 2000, 2004, and the most sever

>> that save us sarbanes oxley which cost americans billions in paper work but did not prevent madoff's the next bubble. >> the economy in crisis, big banks in a death spiral. >> banks make bad decisions. it makes sense that you should have a rule to stop that. >> no. >> but what about that cayman building? doesn't it suggest tax fraud. thousands ever companies are registered here. >> it has nothing to do with taxes. in delaware, there is buildings that have ten times or a hundred times as many registered companies. >> it is true. companies register themselves in delaware because delaware has simpler rules. i once started a business there in just one week. >> fox t-shirts. fox hats. great stuff here. >> i could have ridge r. registered my stand even faster in the caymans. >> whey set out to do was to design a system that was market responsive and fast. >> don seymour helped create the simple rules. it takes just ten pages to register a hedge fund and the simple rules work. >> look at our track record. just in the past decade we have been true the crisis of 2000, 2004, and the most sever