mccullagh chief political correspondent for seen at hey there declan i guess first i just want to get your reaction to this news that it was in fact the u.s. and israel behind stuxnet that and other similar programs. well i first want to say that this is very good reporting by david sanger who's of the new york times is washington bureau i think he was there and she d.c. correspondent does part of a book is coming out next week and in some of the times is running it so that's why this is really nicely done my reaction to this is what we thought was the case everyone had pretty much assumed that it's the u.s. and or israel probably working together what we didn't know was that this was a program put in place by george w. bush and then president obama continued it so with the details especially the white house's involvement we didn't know but the u.s. is really you know that was the general assumption before today yes certainly an interesting article by david sanger it seems this is just a small portion of some of the what he's learned in terms of the number of secret wars that have bee

declan ganley a founder of the better party campaign for a no vote. needs to find an alternative to dumping huge debts on people a massive bank losses they didn't cause. the chances of real a real return of vitality in the european economy i think is somewhat slim particularly in peripheral countries island for its part has an even bigger proportion of failed private bank debt that was social life after it fell down the rest of the european union and we did that in two thousand and eight and two thousand and ten in order to start to save the euro to prevent contagion from spreading so what needs to be done now is that europe needs to come up with a solution that either federalizes that debt and spreads it across all of the european union all the rights it off in some other form but to leave that stark on the irish taxpayer money that our government never borrowed that cannot stand i call for serious moves to be made to create a. united states of europe constructed in a federal way from the bottom up that is to say that it is fully democratically accou

the process now their argument was that it should be considered a national security secret and is declan mccullagh explain to us last year congressional approval isn't necessary. if this were a formal treaty. this would require the executive branch to sign on it and it would require ratification by the u.s. senate. because this isn't something that the us needs to sign on because. in the final version arline actually your list tracks the text of there's nothing that the senate needs to do. well just because that's how obama saw it doesn't mean that the rest of america agrees anything that involves an international treaty agreement or whatever you want to label it should be publicly discussed in fact senator ron wyden addressed this issue during a senate finance committee hearing. looking over our shoulder with respect to whether or not we've done something that could cause an act of party nation to sue it's my question on this point is all over the world you've got parliaments and legislators having debate the people's representatives having debates on whether or not to pass act and why

. >> well, we have six camera operators, and then declan quinn, our whiz genius director of photographyand they're about the size of a cigarette pack. and he attached them to unlikely places. and yeah, we were very excited with what came up with those. >> and when you write a song, how do you do those? what are you looking for? >> i don't do anything. >> it comes to you. >> yeah, i just wait. it's like a hunter, you know, looking for a rabbit. they come out of the hole. but if you stand there looking down the hole -- >> you can't. >> -- it's not going to come out. i'm going to hang out over here. >> you're waiting for what? what are you waiting for? >> waiting for the rabbit. >> yeah, i know. >> i'm waiting for the rabbit to come out of the hole, and that's the song, see, so that's my little metaphor. >> but at one point in the documentary, charlie, there's the thing where you get so excited, it almost looks like you spit on the camera. it's created in -- >> i did spit on the camera. >> oh, you did spit? i wasn't sure, neil, what that was. >> that was phlegm. >> it was saliva it was not