shall be heard together. 8 a is appeal 12-090, 8b is 12-091, appellants are carol seligman and jim stafford, subject property is 2705 larkin street and both appeals are protesting the issuance to peter fenton to a permit to demolish a building, conforming to residential design guidelines by stepping back in two directions. the matter is on for hearing today. i understand the appellants have, are jointly represented by an attorney and if you would like to step forward. are the parties here for this item? you need to -- you want to try and get him? okay, thank you. very sweet. mr. elman, we just called this appeal. we're ready to have it heard when you are ready to start. commissioners, since this matter is two appeals joined the parties will have 14 minutes to present their case. >> mr. president and members of the board, i am howard elman representing the appellant, carol seligman and we are, the other appellant has granted us his time so that we could have a little bit more it make a coherent presentation to you, because there are some complex issues. what we're asking for is that you revo