boehner's comments. they are interpreting it, according to traders i've talked to anyway, as an opening, if you will, which john, you really just mentioned. but eamon, we expect this event to happen momentarily, but how much influence do you think, if any at all, the congressional budget office detailing what might happen to the unemployment rate might have on these particular discussions? i mean they said that if all -- if we go over the fiscal cliff, that we might see an unemployment rate spike to above 9%. do you think that that pushes it a little bit for both sides to really get together and get something done? >> well, look. unemployment over9% is definitely an eye opening figure. but i think the folks in washington know this is a bad deal. they know it is a worst case scenario if we go over the fiscal cliff. there are some in both parties who argue that it might be best to actually go over the fiscal cliff for a variety of tactical and ideological reasons but most folks in washington, sort of where

what is john boehner's plan. know what he's asking us for. >> yeah, i didn't realize what exactly he was saying. i talked to three or four different people about it, and i heard three or four different interpretations. the republicans in congress, the leaders, boehner is very nervous about whether he's going to maintain his speakership. mitch mcconnell is very nervous about how the senate is going to react to the new situation on capitol hill. it's going to take some time for this to play out. it's just going--it's not going to happen quickly. and if people think--people watching the news, eliot might be thinking that republicans suddenly are going to release that they have to change their stripes, and they have to be different--no, no, no. they're not going to realize that suddenly at all. >> eliot: this was not an epiphany moment for the republican party. you said something interesting. that john boehner may be worried about his speakership. who would challenge him and how likely would it be that they could suc

i think boehner set a great signal yesterday. i think the person who called boehner yesterday and said let's get back to work is a big deal. >> i want to ask you. do the american voters really get the attention of the gop now? do they send a clear message that misogynistic, bigoted, homophobic candidate es just dot fly. how do they get the party back on track? >> losing does a lot more parties, and spending time in the desert does a lot toward figuring out how to get to water. the republican party obviously has a lot of work to do, but i'm encouraged they will get the message, that we understand we've got to be a larger tent. we can't continue to just go after a shrinking -- trying to expand a shrinking demographic and recognize we need more tolerance, more diversity, and more policies and messages that address the broad fabric of middle america. so i think the message is loud and clear. i don't think there's any question about that. ultimately, it will be good for the party, and they'll get strong new leadership that will be --

john boehner has his own base. i always struck chuck last night, john boehner comes out in that interview and talks about immigration reform. watch tweeter, afterwards. steve king from iowa, john fleming from louisiana. house conservatives. i talked to staffers, they said they don't represent the house but you give them attention. when they go to twitter and tee off in the minutes after their speakers talks about immigration reform. >> steve king is already making noises about running for the tom harkin seat. is harkin retiring? we don't know for sure. that's been the long assumption. big opportunity for republicans midterm. iowa on top of the ticket. >> abs lieuly. >> already we know that there's going to be a real republican primary. mitch mcconnell and john corbin basically went about this in a placate the base, contindon't, know, disrupt this. and it failed. now, they're not getting blame and i'm surprised. >> here's the deal. in 2010 they did get involved in a lot of places. >> they tried. >> they tried. most

again, though, the most important dynamic here is between the president and boehner. >> yes. >> and boehneraise any taxes in washington in, what, 20, 25 years? >> mm-hmm. >> and so, as mark said, the president has just made john boehner's job much, much more difficult. everybody is looking at tom cole now who is going to be prima primaried. this is what happens when you go and try to meet democrats halfway. according to "the new york times," they start with a proposal that's loaded with democratic priorities. according to "the wall street journal," the first offer was provocative. suddenly tom cole looks like an idiot out there. >> or he gives someone to boehner's left so he doesn't look so extreme. >> but, again, the president by putting this offer out there just made it impossible for another tom cole to step out and be responsive. >> the curt phone call between ba boehner and the president makes me feel they are posturing and getting -- >> first of all, i couldn't disagree more. i think there are lines of optimism to be seen very clearly in this deal, and i'll explain why. let's start wi

boehner is the powerful player here. as always, thank you. rich edson at the white house, and craig smith in arizona. now, craig, i could be overanalyzing, but i'm beginning to see the inkling of and structuring of is the deal that would potentially save face on republicans on revenues saying it might not be a raise, but closing loopholes and that thing. the president might buy that, might not, but because they left out specifics and boehner left out specifics yesterday, me thinks there is wiggle rooms on revenues. on spendi, then, up to the republicans tosee the democrats open to reigning in the growth of e entitlements so you don't throw grannyff the cliff. how do you score the likelihood of progress next week. >> i wish i could be as optimistic as you, neilment i listenedded to the president's speech, and i s infear rated. he did not offer an olive pit let alone an olive branch. they say in life youcan tell where the truth is after the but. that neil cavuto, he's a great guy, but -- and then you go on and say what you feel. okay? he wants

boehner, boehner, don't be a sick. budget cuts will make us sick.he budget cuts are really rude, that's why we have to be so lewd. they were trying to lay bare the potential cuts for aids, the protests also served to put a naked spotlight on a major statement expected tomorrow from secretary of state hillary clinton. on the occasion of world aids day, secretary clinton is due to unveil an aids free generation. secretary clinton will make that announcement on thursday morning, but in advance of that renewed commitment to fighting aids, this group, which is known for memorable protests any way, found a way to be more memorable today. one of the groups involved in today's event tweeted, watch naked aids activists take over boehner's office at congress. that was their tweet that you could watch them and you really could. you can watch the live stream video of naked protesters standing in the office of a highest ranking republican in the country and that does not happen often and because it was that guy's office, other report ers just happened toll milli

so john boehner has wiggle room. he can look like he's the tough guy to the tea party folks who have to vote him back in as speaker. tom cole is really laying out the policy. if they wanted to shut him up, he would have been shut up. and so, where does this leave them? they're not going to play the card on the debt ceiling because that was a disaster for them. they're going to say, you know what, we tried to say the democrats were not serious about spending cuts, but they have no option. they lost the election. you know, republican voters were lied to about the state of the polls. they were lied to about the state of america. and if they want to believe that this is the only path that only spending cuts will get them to deficit reduction, they can carry on believing that or get to a place where they're going to get re-elected. >> richard, i think the president is offering a great deal to the republicans. here's why. these guys can go home 98% and say, you know what, 98% of you, i got the tax cuts. i didn't raise your

but after the election, speaker boehner and now that the american people have spoken, speaker boehner has more weight behind him to say to his caucus, folks, get in line. >> in last night's interview the speaker talked about obama care. i want to remind everybody what he had to say about that. >> the alexeis that. the the president is reelected. obama care is the law of the land. >> but you won't be spending the time next year trying to repeal obama care? >> there may be parts of it that we believe need e to be changed. we may do that. no decisions at this point. >> okay. obama care is the law of the land. maybe parts of it could be changed. it seems very conciliatory. but almost immediately, the speaker sent out a tweet saying that the goal is and will remain full repeal. and there it is. obama care is the law of the land but it's threatening jobs. our goal will remain full repeal. is the speaker talking out of both sides of his mouth. he's either lying to diane sawyer or to everybody on twit per. >> the goal is full repeal. at the end of the day, given the fact the president has bee

choose from among these gals, john boehner and good luck. now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. >>> john boehner knows that the president is right on taxes. he knows it, but he's afraid to say that now, so he's sending one of his loyal soldiers out there to say it for him. >> there may be a debate over whether it's a cliff or curb. >> bump in the road. >> the curve of a mole hill. >> but there is one indes putable fact. >> the fact is definitely ticking. >> it's time for the president and democrats to get serious. >> i got a pen. i'm ready to sign it. >> some signs of compromise. >> congressman tom cole urged his colleagues to get in line behind president obama. >> that's just silly. >> scared me a little bit. >> i told tom earlier that i disagreed with him. >> shame on him. >> why would you do that? it's like selling your soul. >> i hope his wife understands. >> he brought my wife into it? he's never met me, my wife. >> his wife. >> some of these people have had impure thoughts? >> do you have any impure thoughts about gr

speaker boehner. he's about had. >> yes, he came out of the white house meeting today and use the word were disappointed, which is very diplomatic for what happened. there is no mystery about barack obama. this is the man we have come to know for the last four years. he has no intention of compromising. no intention of cutting spending. he has never shown any indication of that. he has every intention of raising the rate and will not compromise. lou: steve murphy is shaking his head. why are you shaking your head? >> because the president thought he had a deal last year with the house of representatives. the president is willing to do this with mostly spending cuts. lou: is often about the negotiations for anyone to do that. [talking over each other] [talking over each other] lou: if you want, watch the markets tonight. lou: watch the markets in europe and asia with the rhetoric today from washington dc and you tell me how sanguine you are about a deadline around christmas. the markets, they seem to b

chris: will paul ryan join john boehner, the speaker, in trying to work out a deal? or he will be a rejectionist and set up the big rebel flag and say i'm going to be the die-hard? >> no one knows the answer to that question. that is yet to be seen. paul ryan is in a terrible situation. he can choose to do the right thing or he can decide, you know, he's obviously running for president in 2016, or he can decide to be the holdout and to be the rejectionist. president obama is lucky to have john boehner on the other side that have table because john bainer is not a crazy person. and he can work a deal. right now he simply does not have the votes. but -- again, the president does have to lead here. he has to bring something to the table. he has to be willing to give some that so that john boehner can bring his people to the table, too. but he can deliver. he's been mischaracterized i think. it's convenient for the white house to say, oh, boehner can't get his people behind him. boehner always gets his people behind him but the president has to bring something forward. c

boehner, speaker boehner will join us and say to the tea partyers, look, you know, we've got to move the country cannot be stagnant, standing in one place. can't do it. >> well, congressman, what about moving on with the likelihood of a kick the can down the road type of deal, where there would be some kind of temporary extension. do you think democrats would fall prey to that? >> i hope not. i want us to get a deal done. but i can tell you that a bad deal is -- i'd rather have no deal than a bad deal. and so, i don't know exactly how -- i mean, if the republicans keep playing these games, we may very well go into 2013. but i'm hoping that we'll be able to resolve it. because zandi is absolutely right. the more we show that we can't get things done in washington, that means borrowing becomes even more expensive, ed. and that means that our fiscal problems get even worse. and you said it a moment ago, going back to the affordable care act. the affordable care act reduces the deficit. so the question is, what games are being played? and, basically, what i'm saying to the speaker is, pl

listen to what he and boehner have said since the election, boehner is clearly open to revenue, doesn't want rates to go up. the president is going to reassert that wealthy have to pay some. but you can actually bridge that divide if you get into pay through something other than higher rates. for example, closing off deductions. those are the kind of -- >> the thing that mitt romney was talking about but was not specific in one of the debates. >> if you think about it the president has talked about tax reform, his acceptance speech. i don't expect him to get into details of how he'll do that. the key is the tone as andrew was saying, people confidence is very important here, es special lir to the markets, the economy, the president to come out and say we won here's the mandate you take this, take our conditions or you'll bear it on your head if a recession happens, that i think is not what the markets want to see. >> and andrew ross sorkin, as we wait for the president to walk in, what -- we see now is that the gang of eight have been meeting. you've had bob corker and others participat

they don't want to hear boehner capitulate.f you read a lot of the right wing sides, not the crazy once, they're already teeing up to say bain ser a failure, he gave into obama. they want to hear him talk the talk. while he still has the rejectionists in hand in the lame duck caucus and while he has that donor class that wants to hear this conservative rhetoric, he's still got to play the game. behind the jeans i think republicans understand they're going to lose that top rate fight. they're going to lose that and i wouldn't be surprised if they wound up putting the debt creeling into the deal at the end, but up until the moment they make the deal, he's got to talk the talk. >> if i was only interested in right wing money and money at the top, i would say that's all true and, therefore, the faster they make a deal the better because if they're going to raise the rate anyway, get it over with. >> it would be better for the republicans if they make a deal now. >> boehner can make a better deal now. the question is whether anyone

boehner is going to do. later on in the show, california's prop 30 passes to raise taxes on the wealthy. really? do they never learn that this will only backfire? former san francisco mayor willie brown is up next. i just want to know why we have to kill the california economy. because free market capitalism is always the best path to prosperity. i'm larry kudlow. we'll be right back. i'm a conservative investor. i invest in what i know. i turned 65 last week. i'm getting married. planning a life. there are risks, sure. but, there's no reward without it. i want to be prepared for the long haul. i see a world bursting with opportunities. india, china, brazil, ishares, small-caps, large-caps, ishares. industrials. low cost. every dollar counts. ishares. income. dividends. bonds. i like bonds. ishares. commodities. diversification. choices. my own ideas. ishares. i want to use the same stuff the big guys use. ishares. 9 out of 10 large, professional investors choose ishares for their etfs. introducing the ishar

you have a group whether it's mcconnell actually much more explicit than boehner in the senate, or boehner saying we can play around with the tax code to increase revenues but not increase rates. those are pretty unkwif cal lines. the realm of agreement between medicare, defense, et cetera is a widely shared realm. that line in the sand -- when you think from wall street and a business perspective seems far too bright given somebody has to pull back from the brink. >> you're saying that their sides are to distinct -- >> on this one issue. they drew a clear line about an issue is revenue inconsequenceal. you don't get to this by raising taxes on the wealthy. we have made this an issue. >> the president made it an issue. >> in our exit polling where he has the aagreement of people. not necessarily popular because most people would like to see no one's taxes go up, but 46% or about said they want it or would be in agreement with meem who make over 250,000. >> the polls aren't important -- what's important is he won a huge election. does that give him a mandate to do everything he ever said? o

now speaker boehner should come forward. speaker said we should do this in a transparent way, open this all to the public. mr. speaker, let's see your revenue tax plan, because so far it's not clear to me exactly what he is proposing. i don't know if is simply saying what republicans have said in the past that some how if you reduce rates on high income earners you're going to magical growth that pays for itself and doesn't increase the deficit. but we know that's not true. he needs to come forward and be as transparent as he said we all should be. what is his plan? >> eliot: that's the pressure that needs to be brought to bear on john boehner. the president could say okay, mr. speaker, you don't want to raise the marginal rate. here's the five loopholes that we're going to close that will get us the revenue we need, and the first one is the capital gains rate. we'll eliminate the different actual that is one essential piece. is that what you want to do? i would like to see boehner smoked out of the ambiguity that he has got

boehner also said something very curious today.e said, and i'm quoting him, he took a great risk in his speech the day after the election when he said he was open to more revenue. he was putting revenues on the table, but the only thing he said was exactly what mitt romney had been saying for the last years, closing loopholes and reducing deductions. >> and, martin, he still had to walk that back afterwards. professor reich is right here. what the american people need to understand is that we're looking at a political party that for different reasons can sometimes put politics ahead of the people. and the reasons here have to do with the monied interests and the way they represent the 1% from a political perspective. so, again, my hope is that once the tea party congress within -- the tea party caucus within the congress is diminished in the new year, we've gone off the fiscal curb, we can have some reality in the discussions we need to have. >> but professor reich, boehner says there's a stalemate. but realistically, is the stalem

creeding to john boehner's authority, let be john boehner negotiate this deal. speculation he will not get involved in the same level. certainly he will be briefed and make his opinions known but he's not going to try to tell john boehner you cannot get this through the conference. look at it from a broad perspective, from folks i've spoken to, eric cantor is thinking like this -- general belief and consensus is if the gop wants to get in 2014 that boehner will most likely walk away in 2016. if cantor can be a dutiful lieutenant until then he could until 2016 if the house republicans win with redistricting and the margins they have which looks possible, he could achieve his dream of becoming the first jewish speaker of the house. no reason to try to ascertain and go higher up like he did in 2011 which left a negative impression of him in a lot of folks' opinions. it's going to be interesting to see if he, in fact, does stay back and credes to boehner's authorities. from all the conversation that's what he seems to be doing. >> i love the mixed messages here. one

so does speaker boehner mean what he says?nswer that question and more, is host of "viewpoint," and former new york governor eliot spitzer. welcome inside "the war room." >> i like being here. >> jennifer: i was just railing about the far-right republicans -- >> i heard you from miles away. >> jennifer: but despite the denial, john boehner gave this statement today to suggest that revenue could be a part of a grand bargain. >> yes, but -- there was classic boehner and cantor. it was quintessential republican double talk. we are now at the moment where you have got to put your cards on the table if you are going to get an agreement. it's now november. >> jennifer: but put their card on the table by saying we would consider revenue -- they said it's the rates they are concerned about -- >> so they have got to close loopholes. >> jennifer: yes, of course. >> so we're back to the same -- [overlapping speakers] >> jennifer: raising taxes, right? >> but which loophole -- >> jennifer: what will grove norquist say? >> as long as grove

speaker of the house john boehner called it dead on arrival yesterday.he question is whether democrats in the senate hold the line here or whether they say, we need to do something about a carl levin seems to think you can't push this through with the nuclear option. you need to get two-thirds on board. >> this is what happened when they last considered this in 2010 where you had the gray beards of the institution say no, this is supposed to be the [ inaudible ] for the house and chris dodds go to the floor and say this cannot happened. what happens with gray beards is they usually leave. >> or get grayer. >> we have a new class of senate democrats coming in and saying there is a legal and constitutional basis for doing this. the thing that i think gets confused here, is that they're not doing away with the filibuster. what reid is trying to do -- >> i think they should do. >> well, you can make -- you can have the argument because a lot of reproductive rights groups would be more cauckau -- cautio about them. have them show up and get 40 votes. >> if yo

what we heard from hoe speaker boehner, he'll talk revenue. unprompted the other say said we'll discuss revenue from an overall of the tax system. that's something he wants to accomplishext year with entitlement reforms. mitch mcconnell was stronger saying he was not sent to washington to raise taxes to pay for more wasteful spending. this election has not changed anytng. neil, the discussions, at least face-to-face begin next week. the president invited congressional leaders to the white house for a meeting, and congressional leaders are working out a date and time. back to you. ne: rich, do you get a sense there's a difference between the house and senate approach to this? i agree with you in hearing mih, sounding like no compromise, but boehner left a potential compromise on ings like tax credits, allowances, various writeoffs they shut down which would be a tax increase, but in the sweeping sense of raising tax rates would not, and that's where he finds the wiggle room with acceptance on the part of the white house that for now being accep

that boehner knows, there is nothing i can do. we're going to have to go off the curb for my members to understand where we really are. we're going to have to have one week of the united states of america operating under higher tax brackets, higher withholding, on takehome pay. and then i'll be able to talk some sense to them. and from the president's side of it, going off the cliff, the curb, just gives him the tax rates he wants at the top and then you just have to adjust down from that. >> i agree. and i think people should generally ignore what boehner is saying and the way he's saying it. i totally agree with you. i think that boehner right now, he can't humiliate his caucus. he can't come out and publicly admit, look, we're beaten. he's got to still talk the tea party talk to the extent they have any power left. >> but he let's tom cole go out there and tell the truth. >> right. >> that is a boehner authorized mission, cole going out there. >> totally agree. >> chris hayes and joy reid, thank you. chris hayes' show is "up wi

never mind that speaker boehner called the debt ceiling his leverage and speaker boehner voted five timeshe bush presidency, to raise the ceiling to the tune of nearly 4 trillion-dollar. this time he wants the default by the government that he has a moral obligation to support the raising the debt ceiling now. so here is the offer the president should make. i tolerated an unacceptable and improper effort by your house to extract concessions on an issue that should be a simple procedural vote. i will not do that again. i have made many offers, and you have not responded with anything tangible. unless you immediately raise the debt ceiling sufficiently to get us to january 1, 2015 based on current deficit projections we're ceasing all negotiations. i'm happy to have the bush tax cuts expire on january 1st, and then have you explain to the public that you have raised the taxes on all americans and you're playing games merely because you're unwilling to act responsibility. it is time to take the debt ceiling off the table as a negotiating ploy. time to call their bluff recognize that time is

john boehner is dealing tw two tensions. he's trying to explain to his conference they have to increase leverage. they don't want to see a middle class tax hike as a result of them standing firm on all the brackets and then us going over the cliff and them being blamed. a political fight that would bruise them through 2013 and into '14, the year they want to pick up a majority in the senate and consolidate their majority in the house and look to the white house in 2016. so he's trying to convince them of the longer view while dealing with the fact many of them are extremely frustrated. they don't believe obama has a mandate, and they want to -- you know, they're spoiling for a fight. he's trying to work through thanksgiving. we're going to see any meat on this bone until after thanksgiving. everyone will take a time to sort of lick their wounds, and then he's hoping the leadership is hoping they can convince the conference to get this off of the table so there's no longer government on the brink and an emergency all the time

boehner, speaker boehner? >> well, i take -- you know, you can flip around what andrea said and turn it on its head. it's a huge challenge but also a huge opportunity. we were talking about legacy before. what a hinge this re-election is. you know, if he had lost in a very practical way, if he had lost, the republicans probably would have repealed obamacare. so his great achievement would have been reduced to rubble, right? instead, it's now up there on the mantel as a great trophy, the great democratic achievement of his first term. you know, him getting re-elected makes the stimulus okay. >> not just of his first term, i mean, that's the great democratic achievement of the last generation. >> yeah, absolutely. so he's got that now, right? and he's now had his vision of having saved the country from the second great depression, ratifying. now he turns to the second term, and he has this opportunity to deal with fiscal cliff. it's a huge problem. if he fails, it could destroy his second term. but if he achieve

so john boehner is the most reasonable, responsible guy in washington, according to john boehner. that? >> well, you know, it's a new day. and perhaps there's a new john boehner. you know, i'm optimistic, and i think that, you know, elections clarify things and so i think this shows a very positive willingness to make a deal perhaps. >> ana, do you agree with that? >> well, zoraida, let's remember what the house of representatives is like. so it's not a high threshold to be the most responsible person in washington. but i do, you know, i do think that john boehner is doing everything he can to signal he's willing to work to the. i think he received a message that the american people said that they want to see some cooperation. and i do think john boehner is a businessman, a business oriented person who understands the economy, and understands that solving the fiscal cliff would be an important part of not having the economy go off a cliff again. now the big question is, okay, so john boehner thinks he's the most responsible person in washington. will his republican caucus feel the