richard nixon had been called into a conference in lbj's bedroom. lbj was in bed in his pajamas. halfway through the conference, ladybird comes walking and in her dressing gown, greets nixon and they continue the conference from there. >> it had been particularly uncomfortable for tricky dick. >> and then there are the many late-night phone calls from lbj to various people of his staffers my favorite being the one where he calls in and says, are you asleep? >> yes, there is a congressman who said, you know, he would call people at all hours. >> 3330 in the morning. these lawmakers went out and there was one lawmaker called at 230 in the morning and he said, i'm sorry, did i wake you? and he said no, i was hoping you would call. i was sitting here hoping you would call. [laughter] remap all right. it is a great story. these books are so full of great stories. truly, it makes for some of the liveliest reading and some of the most intimate reading that i have had the chance to perceive in a long time. i was just delighted to get to moderate the panel. >> i have a story, carol, that

so it's all related, if you will, to lbj. so in a sense, he perhaps would argue this, and hillary rodham clinton talked about the importance of lbj and got in trouble in 2008. but clearly he was a central player in the unfolding in transformation of american society. so let's talk about that. >> if there were a movie on that book, which of course they won't be, he would be the star. he of course takes over the assassination of november 63. in 64 he is getting organized, preparing to run for election on his own and of course he does win. he absolutely tramples barry goldwater, was a huge margin of the jury and along with him is a huge, large democratic majority in both houses of congress. some people later on like and what obama did in 2008. obama's mandate was by no means clear and emphatic as johnson's was. he also had a whole year, plus 13 or 14 months to be thinking about what he would do when he was really president in his own right after the election of 64 and when he is an underrated in 1965. he jumps right in with this

so those are the three things and it's all related, if you will to lbj. so, in a sense, he, perhaps, is the most -- we would argue this -- hillary rodham clinton talked about the importance of lbj and got in trouble in 2008. but clearly he was a central player in the unfolding and transformation of american society, and so let's talk about that for a while. >> guest: absolutely. if there were a movie on this book, which there won't be, he would be the star. he, of course, takes over after the assassination in november of '63, and in '64 he is getting organized, preparing to run for election on his own, and of course he does win. he absolutely tramples barry goldwater, a huge marvin of victory, and along with him gets a huge, large democratic majority in both houses of congress. some people later on likened what obama did in 2008 -- obama's mandate was by no means clear and emphatic as johnson's was, and he also had a whole year, plus 15 or 14 months, to be thinking about what he would do when he was really president in his own right, after the election of

after that, nothing is the same. >> host: lbj is not in control of everything. every president learns there are presidents of power. so much of this is going on in this society. even before the war. now you have to channels on which this is taking place. the great society is sitting in the middle of the vietnam war sitting on the other side there of course is the black movement which you spend time talking about the that the other side is the response of the students to the war. 65 is a way in which you look at what happens early in the year malcolm x was assassinated in you wrote the film and in the course what we haven't mentioned yet is in august you have the right depending on how you interpret the event so here are these big developments that are taking place in my mind you seem to give an equal weight if you will to the unfolding of the 60's with what is going on in the civil rights, and the way that you almost set this up, you almost droll the consensus take on the movement. if i were a southern white, i would say the eve of the destruction was either 54,

lbj took risks.bj said, "i know voting this legislation will lose my party for 20 years scrim he turned out to be right, but it was the right thing to do. .hat's what we're saying and the presidents ford motion in the second term to establish a legacy, and i don't think the president ought to be about a legacy but advancing the best for the american people, but talking about his legacy, i want to see what risky is going to take. is he going to put himself on the line for poor people? is he going that an honest conversation about drones? is he ever going to say the phrase prison industrial complex? reagan would not say aids. bush would not say climate change. >> is a progressive design the defense authorization act in which you can detain americans without no judicial process? to assassinate americans based on executive power question that is authoritarian, autocratic ic. drones are war crimes. we have to call it what it is. >> that is what this is about. >> that is our tradition. if one does not want

besides taking care of the lbj library, the lbj school, and all of his legacies, which she has now left on our shoulders -- lucy and i really miss her -- we're trying to carry on that tradition that she was such a trailblazer in. [applause] >> question to both of you. how did the president's children reach out to one another if they are children of the president's club? [laughter] >> you know, that is one of those things that lynda and i were talking about earlier. unless somebody picks up the phone and asks you for advice, we both kind of keep our mouths shut. we have become friends over the years. plus, our parents or friends, the relationship goes way back. just like we were all in the same era of growing up. lynda has hosted several of us at her home, because there are many things we can learn from each other. how to deal with foundations and libraries and museums and the park service, and how does that and work with those organizations and still keep it your own and continue those legacies? so those are probably the more difficult things to do. the easier things are to sit around a

after that, nothing is the same. >> lbj's and in control of everything. every president learns that there are limits to power. people don't just do what you want them to do. so there is so much that is going on in this society even before the war. now you have to channels in which this is taking place. the society is sitting in the middle of the war and on the other side there is the movement that you spend much time talking about and the other side is the response of the students to the war and 65 is this year. there is a way in which you look at what happens early in the year malcolm x is assassinated. and then of course what we haven't mentioned yet is how you interpret the event. so here these big developments that are taking place, and in your mind you think it is the most equal weight if you will to the unfolding of the 60's with what is going on in the civil rights and the way that you almost set this up almost a consensus historian tape on the civil rights movement. if i were a southern white i would say that the eve of the destruction was either

besides taking care of the lbj library, the lbj school, and all of his legacies, which she has now leftrying to carry on that tradition that she was such a trailblazer in. [applause] >> question to both of you. how did the president's children reach out to one another if they are children of the president's club? [laughter] >> you know, that is one of those things that lynda and i were talking about earlier. unless somebody picks up the phone and asks you for advice, we both kind of keep our mouths shut. we have become friends over the years. plus, our parents or friends, the relationship goes way back. disliked we were all in the same -- just like we were all in the same era of growing up. lynda has hosted several of us at her home, because there are many things we can learn from each other. how to deal with foundations and libraries and museums and the park service, and how does that and work with those organizations and still keep it your own and continue those legacies? so those are probably the more difficult things to do. the easier things are to sit around and talk about which ro

an lbj - type figure. >> i just read the book about lbj -- the president calling the government printing office to make sure it does not close so congress could get a bill printed because he knew they needed to act because if he waited until the next day, some of the votes he had made drift away. can you imagine a president, any of the president's i served with, calling the government printing office to keep them open? i do think a dash of that would be very helpful and what we are involved with. as the group of 8, on these complex issue, trust is important. and if you spend hours and hours and hours together, at a certain report develops and i think it is important to getting an agreement. >> thank you, senator. we will get questions from the audience. >> none here. >> yes, please. >> the you think it is necessary for the senate to pass a budget and if so, when do you think they will do that? >> there are different ways of passing a budget, as you know. there is a budget resolution. you know, we heard a lot of criticism of a budget resolution was not passed. instead of a budget resoluti

to lbj and i asked him about the idea behind this whole setup. he basically said that it seemed like a good idea at the time. as he put it, fannie may was like a hive that attracted the money bees. it brought money to housing that otherwise would have gone somewhere else. and it didn't have to be on the budget. and that was seen as a very good thing. in came the nixon administration. surely republicans would support the idea of getting the government out of the mortgage business. well, not so fast. the nixon people didn't want to let go. they noticed the. the was a democrat. he had been a big contributor to ed monday browne, helping browne to defeat nixon to become governor of california in 1962. nixon remembered that. [laughter] so one of the early dirty tricks of the nixon white house was finding a way to get rid of ray. nixon's housing secretary was a fellow named george romney. who's son mitt has been in the news lately. mitt's day complained that ray was not being very cooperative. he seemed to think he could run it any way saw he fit. there

let me tell you, come to the lbj library in november.are going to have a panel on first children. i think we have three bushes. that is a lot of bushes. they say, yes, but they have two presidents. one of susan's mothers are coming. hopefully we will have a lot more stories. -- one of susan's brothers are coming. hopefully we will have a lot more stories. my goodness gracious, all of the wonderful things she has, what is she complaining about? we all want to hear stories that we will not read in the paper tomorrow. it is a friendship in which you can tell the things that have happened, both good and bad. watergate, for instance. check and i used to play bridge with julie davis -- julie and david. they knew, why would we want to do anything like that? we used to play bridge with them. it was mutual. it was also a support society. chuck and i were honored to be invited to president ford's funeral and betty ford's funeral in california. we are a big family. >> have either view reached out out to the obama girls? have you speculated on what

but one of them has been is the best case of this or lbj, during the first term and in lbj's case 1964olitically controversial get a big re-election and then a president that doesn't have to worry about the electorate and let it rip the year after i'm re-elected 37 in johnson's case great society but big escalation of vietnam. 1973 nixon after the landslide declared a program of such extreme conservatisme barack obama has been the opposite of that because the most important thing i think he wanted to do was health care perhaps the most politically costly, and he did it in a contrarian way, actually instead in his first two years so i think you don't have this big sense that he's saving something up for next year. >> and yet, john if president get the second term it wou unwound the gains made in the hotomy between how the american public assesses him in the long lens of history is dramatically changed by themassively. if you think that d the affordable care act is at t changed almost nothing. it could fundamentally domestic policy an change a large chunk of the economy, of t1n economy b

lbj hasted great domestic agenda and had -- had this great domestic agenda but was ruined as a president by the vietnam war. when you walk into the oval office, president obama looks up and he sees the vietnam general walking hand. you are his worst nightmare. i am here to ruin your presidency. i think is a hard problem. the media does not want to pay attention. we just have a presidential campaign with the war in afghanistan hardly mentioned. i would be appalled if i were a parent who had a kid in afghanistan. what does that say about us? we're putting our kids out there. it says we are not taking our wars seriously. we're fighting for them but we're fighting them with a casual air against. if you're going to go to work, pay some -- war, pay some damn attention. the sense of not having skin in the game in this country, it really bothers me. tavis: that is a sobering thought on veterans day. the notion that it is hard to tell who is succeeding and failing anyway given how messy these wars are. i am all for accountability. as a fan, i have a right to hold you accountable. i did not know h

kind of legacy given that he has a second term, that will make him the kind of iconic president, fdr, lbj, beyond his being the first african-american president? >> 50-50. the with the split is, you always have a shot. advance could make him. sometimes an event -- events make the man. without world war ii you have no eisenhower. tavis: depression and fdr. >> clinton became a great president. tavis: if you talk to him, he will tell you he would have loved to have had a moment during his presidency, he would have loved to have a moment that would have allowed him to have that kind of moment you -- prison monday spoke of. >> if you lose a little way, chris christie. people are blaming christie. tavis: i am coming. >> we are taping you next week. i am hamren you next week -- hammering you next week. i will tell you something. i like travis better. it gives you six letters in the first name and six letters in the last name. there is more balance to it. joye and travis miley -- join travis smiley. amy goodman, democracy now. wither here rig -- join her hee travis smiley. >> for more information

he's got to be a little more lbj and bill clinton. if you're in politics you've got to pick up the phone. >> there is some short term business that can be done in this city. looming over the head of thousands of defense industry workers in this area. the republican house, or democratic senate were not able to come to an agreement on this, basically, because they were at lager heads for most of the summer. they come back now to this city. is this a chance to demonstrate the fact that despite the differences, despite that they were thrown into this caldron, that they can actually work together and maybe avoid these defense cuts. >> we'll soon find out. the deadline is january 1. there is a lame duck congress. what will the lame duck congress do, and will the new congress, this terrible expression, kick the can down the road and delay again when se quest ration actually sarted, or will they become statesmen and actually come up with solutions. >> we're looking at some history tonight in the ways of the unemployment numbers. no modern pre

clinton did not get health care passed. >> lbj, what he did. everything from medicare to the voting rights act. last word. i think it's going to be a very interesting for years and we are all going to learn about the architecture of this man. i love what you said about immigration. let me add one philosophical love. aristotle defines -- defines justice as the word used for integrity. in the complex life a person learns to integrate the competing parts of the human personality, and only then, he says, will you have the capacity to act justly. the question for obama is how he will express that or if you will in this new term. >> that the integrated life that we do here, but the second term. so thank you all very much. [applause] >> great. wonderful. >> thank you. >> thank you. now i know more about what obama is really like. >> more now from last week's washington ideal forum hosted by the atlantic has been institute and the museum. up next, economists talk about u.s. economic competitiveness. aol co-founder steve case and former congressional bu

and i hear this from progressive activists over the last few days is a bit of a -- what's that line, lbj, you know, says to various leaders of his day, make me do it. you know, -- marlin -- martin luther king and others, make me do it. people are getting a system that obama and the signaling system of america, there is a need, even after obama's done, after a new election, there's a sense of a new start is make him arise in new ways to the challenge of the moment. that's an interestst -- interesting moment, looking back in 2009, thinking clearly with a hard eye about maybe what he might have done and now having a fresh hundred days to capitalize on. >> do you agree with john that he's essentially a pragmatist? >> i do. i do think he's a pragmatist. it's interesting. i think that he's a guy who, in my reporting, you find him sending up trial balloons in meetings, you know, and they tend to be, in many cases, property left, your activist, roosevelt-style things, which john is an expert on, the financial change, transaction taxes, for example, in meetings saying i like this idea. there's wa

he has to channel abraham lincoln, fdr, lbj, take a risk if he wants to be transformational and not justnsactional. iment to put at the top of the list the poor in this country. we are counting on the president to convene a white house conference on the erad indication of poverty. the white house conference to eradicate poverty. a lot of the the anti poverty experts on one stage, let's call a conference, bring the experts together, craft a national plan that can cut poverty in half in ten years, and eradicate it in 25. this is a will problem. >> what's the number one problem that leads to poverty? >> jobs, jobs, jobs, that create a living wage. we need jobs. >> tavis, good to see you as always. you have a very famous voice. by the mid dulcet tones. >> it's not that english thing. >> somebody who has an even more memorable voice. she is a name that millions know and love. please reveal your name to us. >> i am yolanda vega. >>> the winning lottery numbers been announced the last 20 years. yolanda vega joins me now. welcome. >> thank you for having me, piers. >> i want to hear that voice.

. >> lbj. lbjate his turkey. >> they thought that's what you are supposed to do. originally and i think still they involve the towel tree and egg board. it is all a promotion for enjoying thanksgiving. >> the question is what do you think sarah palin would have done with that turkey. >> she would have mailed it airily. >> mailing the air -- the areola? >> when we talk about gun culture people and nailing things -- she shot things from the air. >> i think she would have lost the debate to us. >> jim -- but tom you are right. >> i would have thought that this was something stupid like the electoral college set up two years ago. >> just in the research i have done here. it looks like it happened by accident. the first reference to pardoning a turkey comes from a gong by ronald reagan. this were asking if he would pardon oliver north. he said i think i pardoned a turkey. then george hw bush made it a part st ceremony. to your question, why do we pardon turkeys 1234* probably when george hw bush it was a more entertaining time. and thought it was a joke. but people tak

the party goes back to lbj.aving said that it is true that this share of the white vote is lower than any democratic candidate has gotten back to 2000. so the big question is do they want to continue to traffic in that and polarize that will not benefit them or back out of that? the share of young voters increased. all the talk about enthusiasm, there were more young people voting. >> a great segue. it was a huge night for marriage equality. same-sex marriage measures pazed by popular vote. >> in maine, voters created the right to have marriage equality in that state. and in maryland it has also passed a referendum upholding marriage equality. the same is true for washington state. then there were votes to ban same-sex marriage and in doing so they would amend their constitution. we're keeping a very close eye on what's taking place on there. people across the country have struck it down 32 different times. we all remember what happened in '08, with proposition eight in california. only six other state and washi

or real setbacks he came into office so right now he really has a challenge ahead to be more like an lbj or a clinton who can make things happen not just introduce bills but twist arms. some days he has not had it in him enough. we have said that a lot about him and it's true. in the very first debate everyone was saying he did so poorly next to romney because obama by nature is not a confrontational but when the chips were down in the second debate he became confrontational and it was very effective. he knows what his weaknesses are he also knows what the weaknesses in the proposition are. he may want to put his imprint on presidential history here, will the t partiers will they say my job is to make him a one-term president will he do that even though there appears to be a melting at the moment? >> mr. mcconnell obviously failed in making him a one-term president now he faces reelection two years from now in 2014 and he is afraid of palm... he will have more pressure to be more conservative now but at the same time he is the republican leader he has to produce something some of the t p

and he got more legislation through in 2009 and 2010 than any president since lbj, way more than bill clinton. >> that's the great -- >> so i think this idea where he somehow had this first term where he didn't get much done is not right. >> uh-huh. >> i mean, everybody talks about lbj and clinton in particular, why can't obama -- >> right. why can't obama -- >> and clinton did not get health care passed. so, you know -- >> although lbj when he did it -- >> yeah, he got a lot. >> everything from medicare to the voting rights act. last word, ron. >> i think it's going to be a very interesting four years, and i think that we're all going to learn about the architecture of in the man. let me just offer one little philosophical note. aristotle defines justice as the word we use for integrity. in the complex life, a person would learn to integrate the competing parts of the human personality, and only then, he says, will you have the capacity to act justly. and the question for obama is how he will express that or if he will in this new term. >> it's not the integrated life that we do it h

they never talk about lbj much. they thought carter was illegitimate.d they thought bill clinton was completely illegitimate until this campaign. but bill clinton comes out there and to take joan's point and he says not just that he's my president, he's our president. coming from another president who has made hard decisions and it's really putting the stamp of legit maty back on a guy who shouldn't have to fight for it but has had to because of republican obstructionism. >> let's listen to romney talking about the president out for revenge. it never ends. and romney again today, he's running as if he's like america's team, like the dallas cowboys. like he's the american candidate. who gave him that? >> and we've got people on the right saying there are threats of race riots if president obama loses, which is disgusting. glenn beck and rush limbaugh claim that health care is reparations. i think that revenge remark feeds right into that. look at what they're going to do to us. >> it's been a continuation from day one. mitt romney has gone out there and

gooden was saying, be like lbj in passing the civil rights act, if passing medicare. the house and others into the white house, talk, whisper, fight, cajole. beat each other up. privately. come to consensus that way. i don't think this country is ready for division right now. we're ready for healing at this point and ready to solve this and not kick it over. kicking it over is the easy way. >> steve: it should be let's make a deal. not my way or the highway. >> you got it. >> steve: all right. thank you very much. we'll see you tomorrow. 20 minutes after the top of the hour. it's like low jack for women. husbands electronically tracking their wives. we're going to tell where you this is happening and how you can avoid it. and then, secret police files shredded and yet not so secret. used as confess fifthy at the macy's thanksgiving day parade. how in the world did this happen in we got some of the facts straight ahead [ male announcer ] every day, thousands of people like you, are choosing advil® because helps you keep doing what you love. no wonder it's america's #1

tax rates from 91% to 70% and that opened the door to a tremendous boom in the 1960s which eventually lbjttered away. that's the model. not 90% but lower tax rates. >> they will flood out of the country immediately if you have to raise the rates. you cannot go back to that if you wanted to. >> the other thing that is interesting to me, you know, this is -- i'm being very bipartisan tonight. i'm blaming dwight eisenhower. herbert hoover raised the top federal tax rate from 25% to 65%. and fdr kept raising it all the way up to 90%. he raised taxes on businesses. he hated businesses. what do we get? i got a 90% tax rate for the depression. why would i want to emulate that now? >> the other key point is with the income tax up at 90%, that only generated about a third of the revenue that fdr needed iffer the new deal program. things like excise on tires and movies and other things. that's where obama will need to go. no matter how high he raises the income tax rate it will not generate the revenue and he will end up hitting the poor. >> is he channelling an inner obama here? you hear a lot of

for the amendment by appealing to his sense of history and the war has to mean something just like lbjealed to dirkson saying if you come with me on the civil rights bill, you will be remembered for 200 years. only you and lincoln will be remembered. on the other hand, he gave dirkson every public works project dam that was going to sink illinois. lincoln did the same thing, what ever he was needed, assignments, jobs, the years before civil service. it was easier to do some of this then. >> the guy that stole the movie as far as i'm concerned was the same guy that stole that oliver stone movie "jfk" is tommy lee jones. tommy lee jones, playing thaddeus stevens, my hero, the guy that really did believe in emancipation and reconstruction and 40 acres and a mule and wanted to take the freed african-american and make him a full citizen economically, not just under the law. tell me about that guy. we can talk about lincoln forever. thaddeus stevens, his housekeeper was also his mistress. i loved that scene when we discover that. it is a great performance as well as everything else. >> well,

hero of so much liberal political writing, wilson, fdr, jfk, but didn't work out as they had hoped, lbj, and others, the prophet leader is therefore, on his own, forced to tell stories about the future he cannot know or discern, but can, if his will to power is sufficiently strong, will into existence. if history, in other words, has no happy ending in store, if there's no guaranteed values of its own, then the leader may have no choice but to impose his values on the chaos of time. thus, liberalism has not only a fiscal crisis confronting it, but also, i say, a philosophical cry -- crisis. liberals, especially in the academy, post modernists like richard among others, tend to no longer believe liberalism true or right in any objective sense. obama is not a post modernist i'm happy to report, but the confusion about truth, very visible in his discussion of slavery and the declaration of indense in "the audacity of hope," and his confusion of the truth combined with the liberal impatience with the constitution and its forms, makes a harrowing conversation. i am the change, as mr. obama a

lbj after this huge landslide in '64 had es of congress, i have only got six months because all these to be asking people to do are going to be a sacrifice. >> i lost the south. >> absolutely. >> your thoughts. what do you do to create that artificially the same excitement you have when you come in the first term? doug? >> i think that's the problem, and, you know, the great novelist ralph elson once told norman mailer that none of us are indispensable and president obama has to realize he's not indispensionable. everybody is going to be looking for a candidate in '16. he will be a lame duck by '15. do something quickly in six months. >> when you're with him, scare him a little. beware the ides of march. great to have two historians of on. i noticed you're -- the wilderness warrior. your own work there. we'll be right back. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. t my skin. [ designer ] enough of just covering up my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. i decided enough is enough. ♪ ♪ [ spa lady ] i started enbrel. it's clinically proven to provide clearer skin. [ rv guy ]

lbj said when he signed the civil rights act the democrats lost the south for a generation.underestimated. if you look at numbers on the map it's the white south that voted against the president. the professor has just made the point they clearly love these things coming from washington, so what is the reason? the reason is race. they do not want an african-american president. it's time -- i'd like to frankly suggest that this is the love it or leave it crowd under george bush when the progressives were complaining. i'd like to suggest modestly they go ahead and leave and stop embarrassing the rest of us. >> we have with us the former chair of the republican -- let me ask this, 89% of mississippi, whites voted against obama. 85% of alabama whites. was there a tinge of the old cause there? >> i don't know if it was a tinge of the old cause. they have physician so far cal differences with the president. i think this whole thing is silly -- >> do you think they're laughing when they sign these things? >> no. the people who signed it verse the rest of the state. it's not like yo

. >> howard baker told me a great story about lbj and dirksen.rn in dirksen's office, he heard him yelling into the phone, no, god damnit, mr. president, you're not getting those judges. and he slammed the phone down. howard baker said i'm leaving now, senator. dirksen said stick around, you're going to see something. and half an hour later, the door of dirksen's office flew open and in came two beagle hounds followed by the president of the united states with a bottle of bourbon and he slammed the bottle down on dirksen's desk and said, listen, you son-of-a-bitch, we're going to drink this bourbon, get those judgeships settled tonight. that's how he did business. >> you were not a supporter of obama during the primaries. you argued passionately. what do you think about him now historically? >> barack obama, he's done a pretty good job as president, i think. i mean, he got a historic health care bill through. no democratic president since fdr or senator bog wagner right through truman, right through clinton, put it back on the agenda. obama got i

it's about preserving lbj's medicare program with 50 million seniors depend on. it's about depending the president -- on the president's health care law, a program progressives have fought for for 100 years. presidential elections are important. they are battle of ideas that only come around every four years. in 2012, the question is, are we better off together or should we lead people to face their troubles alone? for decades, we've known the gop's answer. they have been against government. just like the hero ronald reagan was against medicare 50 years ago. >> behind it will come other federal programs that will invade every area of freedom as we have known it in this country, until one day, as norman thomas said, we will wait until we have socialism. one of these days, you and i are going to spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it once was like in america when men were free. >> government has not taken our freedom. it's preserved and expanded our freedom. but the same narrow view has fueled the tea party and powered the r