i'm also joined by jeff gardier who is a psychologist and terry williams who is the author of the criticallyin, it just looks like we're not hurting." i read about people who struggle about depression but they never discuss it. why is that happening? >> i think it's the ultimate stigma. many of us see it as a character flaw, sign of weakness. because we're a very faith-based people, we think that to do anything other than to take it to the lord and prayer is blasphemy. >> we also see that there are genetic factors, that there is her t heritabilaty. in most cases people feel like they're not responsible. why can't you just get out of bed? why can't you just get up and go to work? why is it you just moping around? just pull yourself together. i think when people hear that it pushes them further into depression and they become ashamed of something that other people think that they are now responsible for. >> and i don't think that people really understand that it is a medical condition. i think people think it's something, like you said, a character flaw, something they can get over, something