if we can understand that strategickly, sort of get down out of the big conversation and look at ways how do we, as you said, educate the educators, make sure they receive the education and understand that relationships are as important as the classroom can urriculum, especially at the secondary level, continue to hammer out policies that are not so punitive but restore we want to connect to correct. we don't want to punish. we often move kids from one environment it another but it doesn't help them make right and it doesn't help others. this is a systemic problem, it's not going to go away. but we can begin and we are, the people on this panel, those of you in this room, we're taking incremental steps. but one of the things we have to do is keep organizing ourselves and understanding the coordinated integrated way so services aren't bolted on, added on and become just a one and done in too many schools. it's got to be really embraced as what we call a whole school climate framework, a whole school climate improvement plan. and when we embrace that, everybody can come to the table and