statements, that was the objective, meet or beat the rate that was otherwise being offered to san franciscans by pg&e. given the method of recovering costs that the state of california requires for cca programs where if a customer leaves the utility service to go to the cca, they take some of the utility's costs with them. that's an incredibly heavy lift. add to that the fact that -- >> we shouldn't have made the promise, bottom line. [speaker not understood]. the promise was made on the basis of pg&e rates at that time, correct? >> so respectfully, commissioner, i think it wasn't a promise. i think it was a policy statement of the goal of the program. when it was initially conceived and captured in city resolutions in like 2004 -- >> let's not parse words. the impression that the rate payers on the street believe that a commitment was made for this program to initiate, then we would either meet or beat the pg&e rates. all i'm saying is that promise was made at a time but pg&e had no intention of coming up with a green product. is that correct? >> correct. and from that perspective, it's been a suc