so we get to gravanis, there's nothing to gravanis compared to those things. the biggest issue with gravanis over the years, when i started in the early 90's is there was very little information out there and it was difficult to come up with consistent information. and i have dedicated a huge amount of my career to creating consistent information that we can take into court. this is kind of a good example because i have an hour to speak up here. anybody who has heard me speak knows an hour is not a whole lot of time for me. but when you good to court, you are going to be in the same situation. when i go to testify in court to take these guys to trial, your time is going to be very limited. in that time, you're going to have to go in there and present simple, understandable concepts as to what is the foundation of your case and you have to go in there and do that to educate the jury and to educate the judge. a lot of these people and the judge have never been in front and had to deal with a gravanis type case. the information should be consistent. you have defe

and so i ran an anti-gravanis, i hire 14, 15, 16-year-olds and we go out in the weekends to abate gravanis and i floated this idea to my kids, they are interns now, they're 20, i'm old. they wrote the 2000 verse, that lingo. >> we keep asking them, if that doesn't sound right, give me a g-rated version that we can take to the schools. >> the new answers are so great. >> it's like jimi hendrix. never the same way twice. >> a lot of organic happenings back in the 70's. >> in response to the high school, going after high school, i think that that is a great idea. i remember high school. >> yeah, me too. >> it wasn't that long ago for me and i remember not caring. it's not that i didn't understand the message but it was that i didn't care enough that the message went right over my head and through my ears. elementary school kids don't do that. believe it or not they will pause and they will cry. and middle school. you guys know that. they understand, the message sinks in. i do encourage lots of communities it try and take it to their high schoolers and i don't mind being pointed out and booed

. >> our personal on gravanis, the whole thing is it's permission based. now, i know a lot of artists go out there and do gravanis art with permission, murals, commissioned art. for us that's not a big deal. there are a lot of murals in sacramento and san francisco that is all permission based. for us, we're kind of a sdae zero

mer and more cities are realizing gravanis is a pattern crime and as dr. spicer pointed out, it's a great way crime to many other activities. so you can wind up precluding with a lot of other stuff by dealing with them when they are down to the part doing gravanis damage before they escalate to a more violent crime or serious crime. it's nice to attend different trainings. this one here is great because we have people from all over the country, canada and the united kingdom. there are things you are going to listen to when you go, yeah, i would never do that or couldn't do that because of the laws in my political jurisdiction or whatever, we are not allowed to do that. then there's going to be other things when you think, gosh, i never thought about that, i think that would work really good. i'm going to take it back it my jurisdiction. probably over the past few years i've got 500 people i've dealt with, officers that have come to the class and subsequently become gravanis experts and set up programs. almost every program is different. a lot of the basis

program today will basically be on training and expertise, being able to go out, understand the gravanis culture and then take it to court and get a successful prosecution. just a little background, i'm not going to read it all. i pretty much go by sergeant because i was only a lieutenant the last 3 months and i found out if you google me under lieutenant you find something. i stick with sergeant because i have about 14 years on google for that. i spent about 28 years as a police officer for the city of san bernardino, california, about 80 miles outside los angeles. among other things i'm recognized as an expert on graffiti in california superior court. without reading all this i want to let you know that i am well rounded, i was supervisor of the unit to be supervisor of a multi agency dealing with it to being executive director for the entire state, california graffiti association of california. so i have a fair amount of background. i first became involved in graffiti back in 1991 when i was told in the gang unit that i was going to be a two-week assignment to deal with these guys cal