. >> rose: where was jim bakker on this, do you know. >> jim bakker is an old friend of both president bush 41 of course and dick cheney. at the time they were very close and he i think was supportive. but he did urge president bush 43 as he was coming in about don rumsfeld. >> rose: he wanted it too. >> he did too. he reminded the new incoming president remember what he did to your dad, there was bad blood between rumsfeld and bush 41. >> rose: what does that say about the president when his father and others said don't go there. does that suggested he had an independent mind. >> it suggests he wanted an independent break. he wanted to bring in some folks from his father's administration but it's an interesting thing to say of course because all he needed to do was ask his dad. but he wanted to make a break and he wanted to sort of put down his own marker. >> rose: what role did he think the vice president would play. did he as some suggested think the vice president would be a kind of prime minister? >> i don't think he saw him that way. he saw him first among equals as advisors. he