theater to the reading habits of dwight eisenhower. he speaks on a panel with jonah gold burg, william galston and political analyst and columnist mona charen. this panel discussion is just under two hours. >> ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon. i'm chris demuth, fellow here at the hudson institute, and i will be moderating this afternoon's session in which we will be recognizing and celebrating and discoursing upon tevi troy's new book, "what jefferson read, ike watched and obama tweeted: 200 years of popular culture this the white house." with a title like that, you might expect that the book is a parade of ton and entertaining stories about presidents' idiosyncratic tastes in reading, theater, music, sports, movies,

gwen: being bracketed by people like dwight eisenhower on one end and l.b.j. on the other must have done something to shape the way we remember john f. kennedy as well. >> yeah. i think there's a work in progress aspect to the kennedy presidency that stays with us now, a sense that he was someone who had come into it, very young, 42, not knowing much about the white house, had some incorrect ideas about how to organize it, didn't really want to listen to eisenhower when eisenhower told him to organize it this way and kennedy said no, i don't want to do that and he paid a price for that. you see him learn on the job as he goes, particularly on foreign policy. that's also interesting to watch because most presidents, it isn't quite as dramatic as it was with kennedy. start with the bay of pigs and it's kind of a disaster and by the time a year later you get to the cuban missile crisis, he's learned a great deal how the white house needs to be organized. gwen: it's interesting, we think so much of kennedy as a domestic president or very much a hollywood president

a birthday tribute to mamie eisenhower televised nationally by cbs, just a few weeks after eisenhower, dwightounced his bid for reelection. we are discussing be first lady mamie eisenhower. welcome to the c-span series "first ladies: influence and image." mamie eisenhower's turn. we have a historian and author of a biography on mamie eisenhower. we also welcome back edith mayo. she is one of our driving forces among academic his orients. nice to see you again. what should we take away watching that piece of video from the 1950's? about her popularity? about the use of television? >> the film clip that you showed from the birthday celebration in march of 1956 there was a show. it was an election year. democrats want equal time. this is, in their view, a campaign had. the president of cbs and a close friend of the eisenhower's -- eisenhowers said that it is not equal time because this is nonpolitical entertainment with the first lady. eisenhower'sie birthday is in november, a few days away from the election. obviously there was some political background to this. if you watch the show at the tim

dwight eisenhower, he had the confidence and the power to pull it off. ronald reagan was a guy. >> jon: it was a different mentality. nixon, eisenhower, not reagan to the same extent, but those were people that believed in the power of government to do great things for people. this say very different manifestation. it's a group of people -- it's like -- i liken it to this. if the catholic church, the council of cardinals, let's say 35% of that were atheists. right. >> they were like let us runt catholic church we know what to do. >> might be a bad idea. >> it's the type of nilism you get. >> history repeats itself. a new democrat elected in 199 2. americans said you went too far left. we come along we're supposed to pull him to the snemplet we go too far right we reelect bill clinton. we saw how well karl rove did in 2012. i don't think he could plan that far ahead to create the tea party in 2010. that was a creation of what happened in 2009 and 2010. not just with barack obama but with george w. bush a big spending republican who spent us into debt. he g

you talked a lot about dwight eisenhower. and our first president, george washington was also military commander. but in the constitution, we believe that the military should be headed by a civilian. and how do you feel about the importance of the military service in presidents past and future? >> well, one of the things i mentioned is the more people we have of been in combat and the military service in the government, i think it's interesting that during those periods of time when people look at it, we were less likely to be involved in war. if you talk to some of our bravest soldiers, they're not eager for war. i think people involved in combat are more circumspect than those who have never fought. is it a prerequisite? i don't think it is. it's useful to have many people involved and the idea of having civilians an important distinction, even when we elect a general like dwight eisenhower, we elected him as a civilian. you see other countries led by generals, they're autocracies, totalitarian regimes so i'm worried about

she met dwight eisenhower and thought he was a great man and they'll they were very prominent democrats, she went out on her own and supported eisenhower for president, and then he asked her to be in the cabinet and she was. such a prominent political figure, her son was lieutenant governor of texas for years as a democrat and they say that her daughter jessica was married to the republican, who was ambassador to the court of st. james and they had this ability to be leaders and she and both of her children were leaders and now their children also prominent leaders. and it's a prominent family next to us. >> we read about that everyone smile. >> in the treaty under which texas came, there is the right to break into this and of course, we see that it's not a serious movement, probably neither one are serious, sometimes when i think it feels like we are being unfairly treated, and i've dealt with a lot of those battles, there is this movement and people are mad, but in fact, we are a great friend of america and a great part of america and i think that this is not part of our lifetime >> a

which, by the way, republican dwight eisenhower warned us against. >> eisenhower, two mentions in thenk he's winning. i want to stay with you. besides mentioning eisenhower, which as a nerd i love. as a practical matter, what you just said is borne out in the polls. the american people have no appetite for another war in the middle east. so given that fact, and the fact that the neo cons had really been set aside by the tea party, what is the practical reach why republicans would even try to stop a deal from going through on iran in the senate? >> because most republicans, or at least most republicans from that ilk, if you will, still there from a cold war mentality. if you don't believe me, just look back six years ago to the bush administration, to the bush jr. administration, and you had paul wolf owe wits and armitage out there running a war state, if you will. we were in war mode. now, granted, yes, we were attacked. no doubt about it. and we responded and should have responded. but we are still, to this day, sitting in afghanistan in a war that cannot be won for all intents and

you talked a lot about dwight eisenhower. our first president, george washington, was also a military commander. but in the constitution we believe the military should be headed by a civilian. how do you feel about the importance of military service in presidents past and future? >> one of the things i mentioned , the more people we have who have been in combat or in the military service in the government, it is interesting that during those times when people look at it, we were less likely to be involved in war. if you talk to some of our bravest soldiers, they would probably say that they are not eager for war. we need to have a certain reluctance for war. people who have been involved in combat are more circumspect than people who have never fought. is it a prerequisite for serving or being president? no, i don't think it is. it is useful to have many people involved. the idea of having civilians is very important. even when we elected a general like eisenhower, we are like today civilian. it makes as different than other

dwight eisenhower, the person who brought us the interstate highway system. ronald reagan brought us immigration reform. one of my preside bread sezzers elizabeth dol--predecessorsez--h dole, increased minimum wage. >> let me stop you right there. the president came out and supported higher minimum wage. we have a minimum wage that does not suggest that we're one of the most wealthy countries in the world. people who work at minimum wage need to earn more money than they earn in this country and we need to create jobs. many of the jobs we're creating are entry-type jobs. >> nobody who works in full time jobs should live in poverty. the former ceo of costco, have demonstrated that you don't have to make a choice between your shareholder and your worker. you go to a costco store anywhere in america, and you see workers making $15 to $20 plus health benefits. he has demonstrated that you can have a retail business model that takes care of your employees and offers a competitive product for your customers and a great return for your investors. i've spoken to many

the women of our country swept dwight d. eisenhower into office four years ago and they will probably decide the election this time and they like ike. here's someone else they like, too. ike's beloved mamie whose smile and modest ti and easy natural charm make her the ideal first lady. let's keep our first lady in the white house for four more years. november 6, vote for dwight d. eisenhower. >> and the american public did. they served out the next four years and 1960, the election brought john kennedy into the house. the eisenhowers went back to private life back to gettysburg. we are going back right now. >> and for 19 years mamie eisenhower lived in this house and nearly all of her life had this picture on every dresser in every house. what is that? >> ike's senior picture from west point and gave her that photograph while they were dating and says to the dearest and sweetest girl in the entire world. >> a pink phone and lots of pink things. now to an explosion of pink, the master bedroom. >> i think the dec omp r in this room is te

the women of our country swept dwight d. eisenhowers ago and they will probably decide the election this time and they like ike. here's someone else they like, too. ike's beloved mamie whose smile and modesty and easy natural charm make her the ideal first lady. let's keep our first lady in the white house for four more years. november 6, vote for dwight d. eisenhower. >> and the american public did. they served out the next four years and 1960, the election brought john kennedy into the house. the eisenhowers went back to private life back to gettysburg. we are going back right now. >> and for 19 years mamie eisenhower lived in this house and nearly all of her life had this picture on every dresser in every house. what is that? >> it is ike's senior picture from west point and gave her that photograph while they were dating and says to the dearest and sweetest girl in the entire world. and she always had that on her dresser. >> a pink phone and lots of pink things. now to an explosion of pink, the master bedroom. >> i think the decor

but even more than that we need to go back to the advice that president dwight eisenhower gave us as he left the presidency in one thousand nine hundred sixty one eisenhower warned about the rise of what he called the military industrial complex suggesting that private forces might in their search for profits override the protective mechanisms that keep government answerable to its people that military industrial complex has now become the military industrial spying private prison complex and it's a far greater threat to our democracy than probably was invision by eisenhower. government is the protector of. the commons. government is of by and for we the people. to do this government must be answerable to the people and when the functions of government are privatized all of that breaks down. and the government itself begins to be answerable to profit. it's time to reestablish the clear dividing lines between government functions and corporate functions between public space and private space a critically important place to start that is by ending the privatization within our national

. >>> concerns are once again being raised about the design of a memorial to dwight eisenhower. they say they object to the towering columns and large metal taps tries that are part of the design. the commission raised similar concerns about architect geary's plan this summer but voted to approve the general concept. the group will provide written concept to designers next year. >>> 4:50 now. you won't have to deal with any closed stations on metro but you trip may still take a while. the orange and blue lines will face the biggest delays. trains will operate every 24 minutes on those lines starting tonight at 10:00. things will move faster on the red line where trains will run every 8 to 16 minutes. metro isn't just fixing up tracks. they're giving the inside of some cars a new look. metro is replacing carpet with slip resistant resilient flooring in 5,000 and 6,000 series cars. riders told metro they strongly prefer the flooring over the carpet. it is also much easier to clean, as you can imagine. it has a longer life span and makes the cars brighter. they have already had the

probably since dwight eisenhower. we're not lavishly spending on a bunch of social programs out there and in many ways a lot of these programs have become more efficient and pretty effective. defense we spent a lot from 2001 to 2011 but generally we are stabilizing and the pentagon working with me have come up with plans that allow us to meet our security needs while still bringing down some of the costs of defense particularly after having ended the war in iraq and on the brink of ending the war in afghanistan. when we talk about our deficit and debt problems, it is almost entirely health care costs. you eliminate the delta, the difference between what we spend on health care and what every other country advanced industrialized nation spends on health care, and that's our long-term debt. and if we're able to bend the cost curve, we help solve the problem. now, one way to do that is just to make health care cheaper overall. i think that's the best way to do it. that's what we've been doing through some of the measures

but i also think war is war. ..ngton's army in 1776 the weather isn't sent dwight eisenhower's army in 1944 or whether he's an army in afghanistan. today there are certain salient in certain eternal verities of soldiering life. certainly haven't just seen to my research for the american revolution. i'm adjusting to all different sorts of things. artillery doesn't play a very large role unlike 20th century war. their small battles for the most part. although ultimately with 25,000 americans killed in action in the american revolution, second only to the civil war in tes it second only to the civil war in terms of the number of americans killed in action in a population of 3 million. so that's a good question and i'm thinking about it. i appreciate it. >> roi in portland, oregon. good afternoon. >> caller: i'm interested in world war ii. it's written on an. nick: and magic and the only thing was this paragraph is said neither the germans nor the japanese were able to make meaningful headway towards solutions of the sigma machine. can you tell me anything about the sigma machine? i had ne

and dwight eisenhower was standing in the corner trying to say hello to his successor and he couldn't even although his way into the conversation. and then on the airfield, where the two men were returning to washington, kennedy sent for him and was on another plane and had him right back continue the conversation. that is a first kennedy rule of leadership. once you decide, the decision is made. and well, you guys, you won. presidential me to shut up about it. >> there are newspaper headlines about al gore denouncing the kennedy tax cut as a bonanza for fat cats. and there is a tape of kennedy denouncing al gore senior as a son of a gun. and so get a wide spectrum of advice and the third thing, kennedy leadership principles, i discern that you need to stick to your principles. there's a myth out there, i think propagated by a few liberal historians. kennedy underwent a sort of liberal conversion in the final months of his administration after he gave a speech at american university and i write in the book that that's the distortion and it's not only a distortion of the chronology. be

dwight eisenhower had been in the white house for eight years. before that truman and roosevelt.amour, life, vitality. it was difficult to be proud of eisenhower in the way that young people were proud of kennedy. kennedy looked forward, and we looked forward with him to a better country. >> how much of kennedy that we know from history was myth, and how much was fact. a captain in world war ii swims with a fellow sailor three miles clenching his strap in his teeth. >> true. true. but maybe jfk should have been court-martialed for getting his boat torpedos and then gotten every medal in saving the fellow members. >> you have studied history, take us back to 1963 america. much different than now. segregated, divided, not only along lines of race, but north and south and east and west. how different was america in 1963? >> i think the revolutions that have taken place in this country in 50 years, and we have to recognize it, not only have color barriers come down, not only have women become part of the professions, part of the major corporations, but there is this sense that white

he called dwight eisenhower to come to camp david and eisenhower asked him a critical question that everyresident since would be well advised to ask, which is did you have a meeting with everyone involved? did you ask all the questions? kennedy admitted he hadn't. in october 1962 when we came as close as we ever have to nuclear armageddon, what did he do? a 13-day running meeting where he deliberated the issues and came out on the other side of the most -- what was called the most dangerous hour in human history. he was learning how to do this. the tragedy of today is what we lost in the sense of a very bright man who understood history and wanted to make a difference. >> you know, ryan, we talk about the kennedy era as this sort of halcion, rosy time, when we had a functioning congress and we had this great leader who recei recei rhetoricaly was learning the ropes on stage. his life tragically cut short, unsung hero on some things and probably overestimated on others. we talk about the dysfunction in congress that kennedy faced. i feel like it's almost a bomb to people like you and me wh

you talked a lot about dwight eisenhower. our first president, george washington, was also a military commander. but in the constitution we believe the military should be headed by a civilian. how do you feel about the importance of military service in presidents past and future? >> one of the things i mentioned, the more people we have who have been in combat or in the military service in the government, it is interesting that during those times when people look at it, we were less likely to be involved in war. if you talk to some of our bravest soldiers, they would probably say that they are not eager for war. we need to have a certain reluctance for war. people who have been involved in combat are more circumspect than people who have never fought. is it a prerequisite for serving or being president? no, i don't think it is. it is useful to have many people involved. the idea of having civilians is very important. even when we elected a general like eisenhower, we are like today civilian. it makes as different than other c

dwight eisenhower was loved and used it to attack democrats. likability does matter. >> we'll have to see what happens. professor, thank you so much for joining us. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >>> still ahead, it was an unbelievably risky gamble. turning terrorists into double agents and sending them back home in hopes that they would yield valuable information. the secret cia program to turn guantanamo bay prisoners into spies. that's next. just by talking to a helmet. it grabbed the patient's record before we even picked him up. it found out the doctor we needed was at st. anne's. wiggle your toes. [ driver ] and it got his okay on treatment from miles away. it even pulled strings with the stoplights. my ambulance talks with smoke alarms and pilots and stadiums. but, of course, it's a good listener too. [ female announcer ] today cisco is connecting the internet of everything. so everything works like never before. >>> former nsa contractor edward snowden is making new headlines months after he leaked documents about the government's clas

course, that a republican president, dwight eisenhower, who said in his farewell speech to the nationn 1961 -- americans, this evening, i come to you with a message of farewell and to share a few final thoughts with you my countrymen. we have been compelled to create a permanent arms industry of vast proportions. three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. the total influence, economic, political, even spiritual, is felt in every city, every statehouse, every office of the federal government. we recognize the imperative need for this development, yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. in the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military- industrial complex. the potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. presidents eisenhower's that will address in 1961. farewell address in 1961. >> there is what is referred to in economics as a perverse incentive built into this. just like we see with the , arguingesi

. >>> in the 1950s, politics meant men in gray flannel suits, guys like dwight eisenhower, robert taft, adlai stevenson, and richard nixon. they were dull, stodgy and sexless. then in 1956 someone new appeared on the political radar. at the democratic convention in chicago that summer, a young politician battled the old guard for the vice presidential nomination and in the process catapulted himself on to the national stage. his name was jack kennedy. >> i want to take this opportunity first to express my appreciation. >> he was young, alive, great looking, and while he lost the nomination, he wowed the country. >> he tried to get it. he came very, very close. as it turned out, he did not get it, but he did become, overnight, a national figure. >> and then there was this stunningly beautiful wife. for us, 1956 was jacqueline kennedy's debut. >> tell me, were you able to adjust to this? >> well, yes, because i've never known anything else since i've been married. >> no one could ever be counted a loser with her at his side. we also met his family. boy, did he have lots of brothers and s

diplomacy come from the president, who is one of our most decorated generals, white eisenhower -- dwight eisenhower. an author writes him i believed with good reason that once the violence begins, everything changes. you can throw your plans in the trash. in washingtonwar doesn't heed his advice today. a military coup that this administration says was not a coup. in a highly unstable situation, our government continues to send f-16s and tanks at american teargas to egypt. my guess is that those protesting for freedom in egypt who are on the receiving end of ,eargas made in pennsylvania don't harbor warm fuzzy feelings about us. we sent f-16s and tanks and aid to a government they just overthrew. the president morsi and the government -- muslim brotherhood. before that, we sent millions to mubarak him a dictator who we called our ally. common sense tells us that we shouldn't be sending dictators or the muslim brotherhood our money, our treasure. common sense tells us that we shouldn't be delivering advanced weaponry into unstable situations where the outcome is completely unpredictable. i will tell

yes, dwight eisenhower in the 1950s appointed earl warren to the supreme court and a lot of federal judges ike did a good job at little rock but it was really kennedy who embraced in the end of the spirit of the march on washington but also stood up to george wallace and started putting the idea of civil rights into the parlance of the country in a very real way. so for it has to be an important moving day for barack obama. and bill clinton and barack obama have had their ups and downs. there's i think at one point, the president said he can take bill clinton in doses but not too much of him because he's such an overwhelming figure but today they're very bonded i'm sure in reflecting with the kennedy family on what this anniversary means for our country. >> certainly is. and as we watch the president, it can loos like they're getting ready to leave the gravesite at arlington national cemetery and head back to the white house. there you see the former president bill clinton, former secretary of state mrs. clinton, as well. let's bringing in dr. ronald jones, the chief surgical resident at p

we had four presidents -- dwight eisenhower warned about the military-industrial project -- complex. but the four presidents -- eisenhower, kennedy, gerald ford, and george h w bush, all served in world war ii. these men have a tremendous appreciation for the service of veterans. and kennedy, eisenhower, gerald ford did not work in vietnam and did not commit troops -- george h w bush went into iraq and came out out of respect for the troops. eisenhower warned about the military-industrial concerts. johnson, nixon, george bush ii, they gave into the military industrial complex. i have had four of my friends commit suicide over neglect of veterans. i reported to my congressman about the abuse of veterans in maryland. as a result of these men being abused, i have been blackballed in the v.a., because i did something that should have been done. host: mr. noonan, part of what he was talking about was the experience of actually going to war of u.s. leaders. pew research center put out a recent survey on veterans in congress. talked about this issue. number of veterans in congress, down to a

country swept r dwight d. eisenhowergo.years they will probably decide the election this time. like ike. this is somebody else they like mamie whose eloved smile and modesty and's si natural charm make her the ideal first lady. let's keep our first lady in the white house for four more years. 6, vote for dwight d. eisenhower. >> keep loving the eisenhowers, public did. the eisenhowers served for the next four years and the 1960 brought john kennedy in the white house where he campaigned again. o richard nixon, the eisenhowers went back to private life back to gettysburg. go back there soon, right now. >> for 19 years, mamie eisenhower lived in this house her life she had this picture on every dresser and every house she lived in. that?is >> senior picture from west point. his says to the dearest and sweetest girl in the entire world. >> pink things here in the dressing room. explosion of pink. the mappser bedroom. >> i think the decor in this telling of their lives together. every bedroom they lived in, she this color wa

she wrote a letter to then-president dwight eisenhower in 1957 expressing her deep opposition to racial segregati segregation. why should people feel that way because the color of one's skin? please mr. eisenhower, please try with other things except colored people. it's a very eloquent letter. she also has been a remarkable scholar at the very painful subject into that is the subject but she is talking about tonight, the subject of her books. she has come to terms as a scholar with the academic importance of death in american history. she did say something in an article earlier that i would like to share with you. she said i found myself as a historian returning to the past and in particular to a document i encountered in my last year. this of course was john winters. in 1637 across the atlantic. he wrote a charter for the new beginnings and offered what he considered calling a compass to steer by a model but not a set of explicit orders. instead, he sought to focus on the broad significance of the project on disputed in which they should undertake their share of work. i am, she wrote,

things that have traditionally made america and the working class successful say goodbye to dwight eisenhower's america take america's infrastructure for example or our lack thereof chord in american society of civil engineers annual report card on america's infrastructure. mess with an overall grade of a d. plus our roads are falling apart our transportation systems are in turmoil our energy electrical systems are stuck back in the one thousand nine hundred new graph released by investment research firm b c a shows why non-defense related infrastructure spending was around three hundred twenty five billion dollars. as per year when george w. bush stepped foot inside the white house today it's around two hundred thirty five billion dollars a year a ninety billion dollar a year drop in funding from when bush took office it's like this republicans backed by america's super rich have taken this is the money for our schools and our hospitals our homes they've taken about a third of those total money right through a bunch of this money that we from our infrastructure that we rely on to survive this

it was dwight d. eisenhower that said the spirit of man is more important than the physical strength. and the spiritual fiber of the nation than its wealth. always the number of alexis de tocqueville america is great because america is good. if she ceases to be good, she will cease to be great. [applause] on the subject of character, i urge americans to understand and defend the sanctity of human life or conception until natural death. [applause] guard your christianity closely. it is behind everything great about america whether it is enabling charitable work or optimism. the more christianity eroded in europe, the poorer, less powerful, the weaker and less influential but became. john adams wasn't joking when he said that the constitution was designed for a religious and moral people and was wholly inadequate for any other. [applause] on matters of the economy america must remain economically massive and enabled. capital and imagination must continue to be combine more quickly than anywhere else in the world.

there is sherman adams under dwight eisenhower. there are scandals under lyndon johnson, scandals of a much more recent vintage. they are not necessarily connected to the man in charge. they do not prove their corruption and it is unfair to tar them like that in some cases. certainly, harding, i would criticize him for being maybe -- not being maybe as vigilant with forbes. he should not have allowed him. to lead a country. he goes to jail after harding is dead. >> why, in the summer of 1923, did the president and first lady plan a trip? >> there have been suggestions this was to escape -- >> they just wanted to see alaska. >> they gave it a brand -- brand name, the voyage of understanding. they were going to go to alaska, and then come down through the panama canal. right after the election, a vacation visit. this trip was aimed to create a greater connection between the american people and alaska. unfortunately it was the trip that would be the end of harding's life. what happened on the trip, he gives many speeches, is welcomed

. >> dwight eisenhower put the world on a glide path towards annihilation of the most gargantuan expansion> reporter: but stone says we'll likely never have definitive proof of what happened in dallas. you don't think we will ever know? >> i don't think it's going to be a smoking gun like you think it is. but i think if you go to the negatives and add them up your lodge lick lead you-- like sherlock holmes said-- to a deduction. and the deduction is that he was removed. >> reporter: by more than one man. >> yes. by more than one man. he was removed by our government. not the entire government, i'm sorry. by certain elements in the c.i.a., i believe, controlled this operation. they're very good at this game. >> reporter: today questions about single-bullets and lone assassins are still being asked. but the answers are-- in essence-- always the same. you essentially put lee harvey oswald on trial and you won. you convicted him. >> yeah. >> reporter: former los angeles county prosecutor vincent buell east coastsy knows a thing or two about evidence. he put charles man son behind bars. >> is t

dwight eisenhower warned about the military complex. presidents eisenhower, kennedy ford.y all served in world war ii. these men had a tremendous appreciation of veterans, and kennedy, eisenhower, in gerald ford would not commit troops. george w. bush went into iraq and came out. mr. eisenhower warned about the military industrial complex. eisenhower and george bush to you, they gave in. i have had four of my friends commit suicide over neglect of veterans. i reported to my congressman about the abuse. as a result of these honorable men and services that were being abused -- i did something that should not have been done. host: the experience of actually going to war, and u.s. leaders and the pew research center put out a recent survey on veterans in congress that talks about this issue and talks about the shrinking number of veterans in congress, down to about 20% today in both the house and the senate. does that contribute to the civil-military divide here? guest: first, i would like to thank robert for his service in vietnam, and i would like to say that the issue he ra

well, it sort of brings up dwight eisenhower's warning about the military industrial complex. and with the collapse of the soviet union, we didn't really have a sophisticated enemy anywhere. we tried to and with china, but china was funding us so amply, we couldn't go too far. and then this gift that doesn't stop giving of terrorism happened. and it sort of, you mentioned the 9/11 commission, and it really goes to the question of what do we have the right to know and what is classification. and i've been intrigued by this 9/11 -- here, okay, the whole enemy is this al-qaeda and the 9/11 attack. but now as a lawyer and as a constitutional lawyer, we haven't had a trial of these people. we know very little about them. we have not had any kind of public -- who is mohamed, you know, blah, blah, blah? khalid sheikh mohammed. who are these people and what was driving them. so we have this enemy that we really don't care to know too much about and the 9/11 commission report -- i used to remember the page, i don't now -- but there's a disclaimer box in which these people on the commis

there was a time in the 1950s when dwight eisenhower publicly said that nuclear weapons were another problem and over time we have decided, or he decided, quietly. but it really wasn't just a tool of the trade, but because it was so uncontrollable he would not use it. so what happens when we asked that same question in all that was laid out at the beginning for us? with espionage, with attacks on infrastructure with a political tool. can you imagine a situation where we all agree to take sides outside of our arsenal? >> i'm not sure. we are engaged and i think that this is a better question for both the academic and others. >> you're caught in the crossfire in a very good point. we are visiting unfairly in the crossfire. >> we can't imagine someone deliberately using this kind of tool. so what would really be worse in dealing with this case? >> the israelis did on their way to redecorate the syrian reactor in 2007. >> the outgoing secretary has made a suggestion to introduce this. a huge compilation and an outcry among the veterans. people that are just, you know, playing or tapping