peter godwin is a former human rights lawyer in his native zimbab zimbabwe. he became an author. mandela wrote the forward his book. peter binart is at the university of new york. you pointed out that mandela was always different, even in prison you say everybody else wore rumpled clothes. he took pains to iron his clothes. he stood ramrod straight. he had the kind of imperial bearing. your foundation tried to train leaders in mandela's wake. do you think that the drop-off was inevitable ors had south africa taken a particularly bad spiral downward after nelson mandela? >> look, i think as a country we've taken a knock, but i don't think the process has completely and totally derailed. i think it can be put back on track reasonably easy but it will take a huge amount of hard work to do so and i think we have the resources, the personnel resources and the willingness to put it back on track. >> let me ask you, you were in jail for so many years, what does that do to somebody? looking at you, looking at mandela, what does it do to spend those many years in jail? >> it teaches one a