and basically, he was being rafat was incause a support of getting rid of apartheid.e was being told you can't talk to him and then he said, you can't tell me who my friends are. tavis: at the time i was not on tv but this is where i was headed. this is a broadcasters questioned. have thisasion you interview, do you feel that those conversations measured up? sometimes you get a big-name name and they don't give you anything. >> he was 100%. i tried to anticipate what someone will be like. but he more than magnified them. reaching,rm, far- forgiving and understanding, with a gentleness and the warmth, but at the same time, there was a strength, to perceive strength and understanding, through strength at the same time. >> i was fascinated by him. he joined them in his 20s. smart, but hed, was a warrior, he really did provide the leadership with confronting the apartheid regime. what is fascinating about him is knowing what he went through, and then serving 27 years in prison, coming out and talking about forgiveness. klerk told me he called nelson mandela the day before