one of the innovation cycle when the area of economic indicator to me how this guy named george katonawho starts to measure, and this gets your point, but the people to measure consumer sentiment in these that. >> guest: you have this effervescent of numbers. you had some before the housing associations and some purchasing managers and people accompanies it by festering figure out what is going on nationally. many good associations that governments crating statistics, so will create statistics. many of academics who think what are we going to read to this? there was this quirky guy who another anagram came in the 1930s to train both as an economist and if they just thought psychologists. if anyone remembers the 1970s, without going into that condition, his belief was how people think and feel individually shaped their behavior economically and therefore if you can get a gauge of how people feel communicate a gauge of how they're about to act. it is interesting for the government during world war ii because they're so is in an aspect inflation in prices based only on what people perceiv

he mentioned george katona and his work at the university of michigan which i believe has made a fairount of dollars off of producing this. >> guest: this is a start paying for it and wall street starts paying for it and that's a big factor. in the 1970s and 1980s when people start wanting a trading edge in trading on the numbers and the police that the numbers will represent something fundamental or an economic is tiffany which would have an influence over corporate activities. the numbers business becomes a huge one. the national association of homebuilders puts out its set of numbers and the institute of supply management puts out its numbers about manufacturing activity and that the federal reserve starts getting into that and starts doing regional manufacturing surveys. you have this proliferation. in a way that was inconceivable. one thing i tried to be clear about in the book is just like we individually are born at a certain time and shaped by the culture we grew up in all the numbers are warned within a few decades of each other fundamentally. they are a product of the time.