let's turn to gordon cheng. huge indictment, big show. is it more than that? >> what we're trying to do is say to the chinese, look, we know a lot about what you're doing. we know where you live. when you think you're alone we're going to find you. otherwise this doesn't make sense. these guys are never going to be coming to the united states and say, please arrest me. take me into court. that is just not going to happy. so i think what we're trying to do is start a conversation with the chinesçe and sort of up the ante a little bit. >> what the chinese do is they copy our products, big and small. we know they knock off electronics. now we're led to believe they're going into everything we do and copying all of it. is the problem that serious. >> it is. the estimates of annual loss range from 20 billion to about 350 billion, and probably we're talking at least $110 billion a year. that's a trillion dollars over a decade. so, clearly we have to do something. it's 2.1 million person jobs that are lost and that is important. >> how is it that 2.1 million america