as manfred said, that's the majority purpose. in the c.i.a. and guantanamo, there's evidence that suggests that the purpose was not to prevent terrorist attacks, but to kind of build cases and pretext for prolonged detention when there were none, and that's the most common purpose of torture. >> during detention whether it's for detainees or prisoners, a lot use solitary cop fine. . is that -- confinement. is that considered a form of torture. when does it become torture? >> it's a difficult question. there are cases where people have been kept for three years. in pre-trial detention, if you need to keep people apart because it's a whole gang that's arrested, for a short period of time, solidarity confinement might be necessary. prolonged forms, in particular if people are told - sorry, prolonged form of solidary confinement, if i keep you there until you confess or provide mow with the information i'd like to hear from you, then, of course, this becomes a torture, because it is for the pourp of exacting information. we have to distinguish but

outlining the agency's secret interrogation programs and manfred novak, a former un rapportor on can torture, we started asking how pervasive torture is around the world. >> there are over 100 countries listed in amnesty's report as torture regimes. the american position on torture is the united states has long been a strong advocate against torture. our state department publishes an annual human rights report which details the practices of torture but unfortunately because of the u.s.'s own post-9/11 detention and interrogation program we have ourselves come unscrutiny for our policies and we have been unable to influence conduct of other government. >> you mention the united nations convention against torture, many of these nation he use torture techniques to punish and intimidate victims. >> when i was a u.n. special arbiter on torture, i visited 18 countries on official mission, so in 19%, 17 of the 18 countries i did find torture and this was a fairly good sample. so not only the worst countries. from all regions of the world, democratic cubs and dictatorships and big and small