so that seems to be pretty leading, you were talking to david chuter, we will have a variety of evidence here. there will be satellite, there will be signals intelligence. what you heard from the ukrainian personals. we will let nato and the u.s. weigh in on this, again, heavily watched one of the most heavily watched spots in the world, they saw there's evidence they may have. a variety of different pieces of evidence. e'm worried aability the integrity of this crash site. i'm pretty sure the russians are driving there as fast as they can. >> yeah. >> but it is such a big area, maybe they will be enough -- >> let me ask you what i want to get here with you. so in terms of whether we are right now, in the escalation, of this whole crisis, in the early days of what is happening in kiev, and then what we saw in crimea, and some other areas and eastern ukraine to the place where you have russia clearly supporting these separatists right. to and now we are at a place, where one of these missle systems advance missle systems. is alleged to have been used by these pro russian separatists to sh

one thing that is striking about it, david chuter was pointing out, that is those streaks coming and then you see what appears to be pieces of the plane slowly falling out of the sky. your thoughts. >> the frails and that black smoke cloud, would indicate again that this is something immediately catastrophic. because the bring is falling straight down, but the other thing this indicates is this provides more to the evidence again, you don't usually see this kind of video with a regular sort of mane crash. to be able to have this video which has to have been taken within 30 seconds of when the fuse lodge hit the ground. and other debris that is lighter and creating these end trails. it is another thing that investigators will be able to look at and say this is what we can tell about what happened. >> again, 295 people onboard that plane, 280 passengers the others being crew membered all right now presumed dead, no official count on the number of casualties that we may have. way are going to rejoin our coverage right now, these are our colleagues at al jazeera english in doha. >> this

say a book missile, such as the ones you are seeing right here, may have shot the plane down, david chuter has been looking into that. david, what do we know? >> well, the claim comes from officials with the ukrainian interior ministry, this is a system they would be familiar with, and we will explain why, when you hear the reference to buk muscle system, it is a medium range service missile that the russians began producing in the mid 1990's. it was a update to what used to be known as the sa 6, and s.a. 11. that the russians had during much of the cold war. particularly in the late 1980's. the buck missle system had a range of 50-kilometers or 20-miles so when you hear reports that the crash site is about 20 miles from russian air space that would still put the aircraft within range of a buk muscle battery. nato officials view the buk system cruise mills and also smart bombs. bombs that are dropped by western aircraft. the buking is on the ground, consistents of seven ground vehicles there is a radar, acquisition type. the time it takes to spot something on radar, is less than five minut

. >> david chuter, david, thank you.ow steven coen is the professor emeritus of russian studies almost. welcome. what do you make of the russian reaction to this? >> i think they are exasperated. they have been warning that push was going to come to shove in the skies over ukraine. because the back drop is, is that the ukrainian air force has been attacking since july 1. p increasing velocity, seven or eight year cities near russia, where ethnic ukrainians but they are russian speaking. and they think of russia as a place with which they have affinity. and russia has been demanding that this assault on the cities stop. about three weeks ago, the rebels on the ground acquired some capacity to shoot those planes down. and they have shot a number of them down. reporters mentioned. some of them. i think it is possible that early this morning before the malaysian incident they shot down a fighter plane, and the pilot survived. and that's on record. but the russians have been warning this is extremely dangerous, and it needs t