and there's another guy, dan foster, who there's no one -- really his grandfather had served honorably but for a short time long before dan was alive. so i would say generally they had folks that they were familiar with that had served, but there are a couple that just sought out that structure, the brotherhood. they liked the concept of belonging. james actually did research boo what the marines -- into what the marines were all about, and he just became enamored with them, and he said i have to be a part of it. i can't not be a part of it. and it was pretty compelling. this was out of nowhere for him. there was no -- it was just something that developed within him, and it was pretty inspirational. >> one of the attributes just to piggyback on that question you talked about humility a lot in the book. and you think of honor, those are things you're trained or taught. humility is sort of a residual piece a bit, but did you find these are humble guys who joined the military, or their service humbled and them and, therefore, was the cart before the horse what? >> i think it varied a litt