at ehrlichman, this is the thing that amazes me that neither ehrlichman or haldeman telmex and what the vulnerability is. haldeman hence vaguely in those early conversations well there are some strings that might be a problem. i'm not even sure how much ehrlichman has told him but what happened is john mitchell within 48 hours of the arrest, bob marty and ann fred leroux two of his aides debriefed libby and betty confesses that he -- as he had to me that he used to men in the watergate that he used in a break-in and they are now in on the d.c. jail. liddy tells him other things. the cia provided per finale and what have you so mitchell is generally concerned at this point. my hunch was that mitchell had that not have been the case might've stepped forward and said listen i made a terrible mistake here and done the right thing. he has been so worried about the fact that the white house has got both feet in this as well. >> host: that is why he calls up the white house -- that's part of the 1970 houston plan which nixon authorized wiretapping additional break-i break-ins. nixon authorized

because ehrlichman -- this is the thing that amazes me, neither ehrlichman nor haldeman tell nixon what their vulnerability is. hall dr. had deman hints there were some strings that might be a problem. i'm not sure how much ehrlichman has told him. what happened is john mitchell, within 48 hours of the arrest, -- bob marreddan and fred larue, two of his aides, debrief liddy, and liddy confesses that he had used two men in the watergate that he used in a break-in in daniel elseberg's psychiatrists office and they're now in the d.c. jail and says the cia provided paraphernalia. so mitchell is genuinely concerned at this point. i think my hunch was that mitchell had that not been the case, might have stepped forward and said, listen, i made a terrible mistake here and done the right thing. he is then so worried about the fact that the white house has got its -- both feet are in this as well. >> host: later mitchell called the -- >> guest: that's what drives the coverup. >> host: that's part of the 1970 houston plan, which nixon authorized, wire tapping, additional break-ins. ... p. also i

because ehrlichman agenda is, this is the thing that amazes me that neither ehrlichman nor haldeman -- well, there's some strings they might run out that would be a problem. i'm not even sure how much ehrlichman has told him. but what happened is, john mitchell, within 48 hours of the arrest, bob and fred, two of his aides debrief libbey, a lady confesses as he had the name that he had used two men in the watergate that he used in a break-in in the site could trust to a psychiatrist office and now they're in jail. and lady tells him of the things. safs provided paraphernalia and what have you. so mitchell is generally concerned at this point. i think, my hunch was that mitchell, had i not been the case might've stepped forward and said listen, i made a terrible mistake. and done the right thing. he then you so worried about the fact that the white house has got, it's both peter and this as well. >> host: so that's what mitchell called the white house -- >> guest: that's what drives the cover-up. >> host: that's part of it, the 1970 houston plan which nixon authorized. wiretapping, add

and he said that ehrlichman, who has since been convicted for that break-in, he said that ehrlichmanwas one of the two finest public servants he had ever known. what about the internal revenue service? whose 575 names of political opponents of this administration turned over. the president clearly approved that in a conversation on september 15, and we have his word. he didn't expose these people. he didn't throw haldeman out of his office. he didn't throw dean out of his office. at a later date, he said did you needed more help with the irs? the commissioner of the internal revenue service submitted affidavits to this comedian in which he said it was a white house intention to try to create a personal police force out of the alcohol, tobacco, and firearms part of the internal revenue service. what we have seen here is an attempt on the administration with the imprimatur of this president to bring retribution against those who seek to oppose the administration, and how many of us not world with president in the past, democrats are republicans, over agricultural or environmental or fo

ehrlichman strenuously objected. they would not leave it alone at that point. , mr.ple of days later ehrlichman got in touch with the president personal attorney and told him to go to las vegas, plant the story that hank green's son was a las vegas sun. he refused to do so. but this is part of a pattern of misuse of the internal revenue service. >> the gentleman from texas. i think the gentleman for yielding. this is one of the areas i mentioned i was concerned about in my opening statement. i share the concern that was expressed. let me just say that the story both bad would call and good. the story is bad because top clearlys of government tried to misuse their power. good in the respect that in this particular case, contrary to many aspects of the watergate affair, there were good people who rejected and fought what was a blatant misuse of power. i realize other administrations have been guilty of similar but i don't think it was on the massive scale of this. names were given to the internal revenue commissioner.

. >> host: one of the other thing is found fascinating, ehrlichman goes to nixon in march of 1973 before cow knock and give your cancer on the presidency speech, and they talk about the actual watergate tap interest the democratic headquarters, which functioned, at least for a number of weeks -- ehrlichman reports to nixon and there's some pretty juicy stuff in there. and then a lot of this is being hell back. -- being held back, and then they're talking about the tapes themselves. this is what is so interesting. nixon says, i think we ought to destroy the tapes. >> guest: his tapes, not the dnc tapes. >> host: get rid of these tapes, and he actually orders haldeman to do it. >> guest: twice. >> host: and at the end had mon says sure, but nothing happens. why? >> guest: he gets consumed in watergate after that himself, and not being a lawyer, he thought nixon might be able to use these selectively and made the decision he wouldn't do anything about it. what is interesting is, that's after the point when he leaves and they continue having meet, he seineses they meet in the lincoln signatu

if ehrlichman took something and went with it, that's ehrlichman's. and bob had enough on his plate that he's not worrying about what john's worrying about. he more likely would be worried about something that kissinger was doing, only because that's where nixon's primary focus would be. and the ramifications on that. and also, he was not a foreign policy expert. so he would be trying to make sure that he wasn't screwing something up or messing around. bob had a great philosophy. his approach on this was to, if he was in the president's office and there was a meeting going on and it got into a subject area that he was not knowledgeable about, he would attempt, not successfully all the time, but would attempt to get the key person in. i think i mentioned this earlier. schultz or whoever it might be. he considered that a key part of his job. because he didn't want to be in a bind either where all of a sudden, he's nodding and nixon is taking it. he wanted to get the expert there. >> did you ever hear [ inaudible ]? >> no. let me go back to bob a minute.

. >> haldeman and ehrlichman. sorry. >> tell us about going to prison. >> it's not something that you want to do unless you absolutely have to. i had a great piece of advice on the prison thing. this elderly gentleman, who i had started being with and mentoring with, said dwight, either it can get the best of you or you can make the most of it. so i took and i set a schedule. same one i used at the white house. i read more books than i have ever read in my life. i had a daily schedule. i couldn't hardly keep all the activities squared away. i had my jobs. they wanted to make sure i was not treated in any way that would be criticized. so they put me on a tractor out in the field because that was supposed to be punishment. they didn't know when i was 12, 13, 14, i lived in kansas and drove a tractor and loved it. and then they put me in the kitchen and that was fine. i opened a center for helping inmates find jobs when they left. and i ended up kind of doing this counseling thing where i help them prepare letters th

. >> haldeman and ehrlichman. sorry. >> tell us about going to prison. >> it's not something that you want to do unless you absolutely have to. i had a great piece of advice on the prison thing. this elderly gentleman, who i had started being with and mentoring with, said dwight, either it can get the best of you or you can make the most of it. so i took and i set a schedule. same one i used at the white house. i read more books than i have ever read in my life. i had a daily schedule. i couldn't hardly keep all the activities squared away. i had my jobs. they wanted to make sure i was not treated in any way that would be criticized. so they put me on a tractor out in the field because that was supposed to be punishment. they didn't know when i was 12, 13, 14, i lived in kansas and drove a tractor and loved it. and then they put me in the kitchen and that was fine. i opened a center for helping inmates find jobs when they left. and i ended up kind of doing this counseling thing where i help them prepare letters th

ehrlichman says it was. dean says just say that. the president says yeah. >> the other minute of the gentleman has expired. >> i really didn't finish the sentence. [ laughter ] it's a long sentence. >> i think you have. mr. chairman how much time do we have remaining? >> the gentleman from california has eight minutes remaining. >> i'll be happy to yield four minutes to my colleague from ohio. >> the gentleman from ohio is recognized. >> thank you, mr. wiggins. i thank the gentleman from california used the longest minute we've had thus far. let me say he mentioned one conversation that i think that we ought to go back to a prior conversation, his minute didn't permit him to do that. and i have reference to the first time that the president of the united states found out about this. months after the break in. and that's the conversation between the president and john dean on march the 17th, 1973. let's read that. dean, the other potential problem is ehrlichman's and this is the president spoke up, in connection with hunt? dean says

he told halderman and ehrlichman that he was going to talk to an attorney. but i guess nixon could not bring himself to act because if he had acted, if he had gone to the famous hangout roof, there would have been so many other horrors that he would have had to reveal and he felt it best to tough it out i guess. host: we are reflecting on the resignation of richard nixon 40 years ago on this date and of course gerald ford who was the first and only appointed vice president becoming the first and only appointed president. when will your book be out? guest: either christmas 2014 or maybe around father's day. caller: thanks for taking my call. i heard some of what this gentleman has been saying and i saw the person you had on prior to him and before that i think it was when i saw the clip that you showed of nixon's resignation speech. and, gosh, it reminded me, again, of what a fascinating and enigmatic, mysterious person that nixon was. it was suggested to me that he had a narcissistic quality. that comes to mind all right but that doesn't answer the question

this is just before the resignation of halderman and ehrlichman. neil: i remember that well.id you know he was taping you? did you know he had this elaborate taping system? >> no, as soon as i found out he had the taping system, one week later, i had a memo on his desk saying keep the dean tapes, the conversations with john dean and the brezhnev tapes and foreign policy, destroy them. they should never have been made, you have people talking to you in candor about all manner of things and you've got material on them. and they're not going to do you any good and get rid of those. if he had, i think he would have survived, neil. neil: doug brinkley, cronnolgizing the tapes, he was very, paraphrasing, screwedup guy, brilliant but a screwedup guy. what do you think? >> take a look at his first term. he won 49 states. did all these things with foreign policy, salt treaties, opening up china, saving israel. bring the troops home. bringing the p.o.w.'s home, ending the draft. all the terrific things. no doubt when he sat down in the office in idle hours with halderman and ehrlichman

deeded domestic affairs to john ehrlichman.ome of his domestic achievements like the environmental protection agency, early -- ehrlichman was all over that. and his role? >> he is the henchman. the one person that nixon could do is miss with, even if it is devious. the trust between nixon and haldeman is. they say he had no friends except a white -- a love for his wife. haldeman was a friend. i heardend -- transcribing the tapes was more art than science. ones are easy to describe -- transcribe when they are on the phone. but there are bugs everywhere. some would call it inaudible. today's technology and if you get any year for the voices, luke prevailed. knowing nixon's voice or kissinger's is easy, but sometimes you don't know if it is strom thorman or someone else. luke actually went to henry kissinger and went through them with -- to identify a bunch people we could not. between 1971 and 1973. ues of the jews -- iss time are the via john -- vietnam war. thisg, i have inherited mess and i could be a folk hero if i pull and e

if ehrlichman took something and went with it, that's ehrlichman's. and bob had enough on his plate that he's not worrying about what john's worrying about. he more likely would be worried about something that kissinger was doing, only because that's where nixon's primary focus would be. and the ramifications on that. and also, he was not a foreign policy expert. so he would be trying to make sure that he wasn't screwing something up or messing around. bob had a great philosophy. his approach on this was to, if he was in the president's office and there was a meeting going on and it got into a subject area that he was not knowledgeable about, he would attempt, not successfully all the time, but would attempt to get the key person in. i think i mentioned this earlier. schultz or whoever it might be. he considered that a key part of his job. because he didn't want to be in a bind either where all of a sudden, he's nodding and nixon is taking it. he wanted to get the expert there. >> did you ever hear [ inaudible ]? >> no. let me go back to bob a minute.

ehrlichman and mr. young. protect their rights. rescue their liberties. from violation. the carolina ratification convention impeachment criteria. those are impeachment who behave amiss or betray their public trust. beginning shortly after the watergate break-in and continuing to the present time, the president has engaged in a series of public statements, and actions designed to thwart the lawful investigation by government prosecutors. moreover the president has made public announcements and assertions, bearing on the watergate case, which the evidence will show he knew to be false. these assertions, false assertions, impeachable, those who misbehave, those who behave amiss, or betray the public trust. james madison again at the constitutional convention. a president is impeachable if he attempts to subvert the constitution. the constitution charges the president with the task of taking care that the laws be faithfully executed. and yet, the president has counseled his aides to commit perjury, willfully disregard the secrecy of grand jury proceedings, conceal surreptit

. >> so many players, bob haldeman and john ehrlichman from the white house, and judge sirica, and others from your committee including barbara jordan of texas, they became household names. >> yes. >> in the summer of 1974. with representative jordan in particular, did you have any interaction with her on this issue? a democrat from texas, you're a republican from maine? >> i really didn't have any interaction with barbara. even though we had attended a session before we were even sworn in at harvard, john f. kennedy institute of politics, we were both selected as part of four people to attend a several week session at harvard. we met there. but frankly, we had never had a discussion from the time that we met, and i think it was december of 1972, to the time that we conducted these sessions. we never spoke to each other. >> but you ran into her once. >> i did. it was following another, for me at least, significant moment. president nixon refused to turn over the tapes originally, and had gone on national television. we had requested the president submit to the committee the actual tape re

ehrlichman and mr. young. protect their rights. rescue their liberties. from violation. the carolina ratification convention impeachment criteria. those are impeachment who behave amiss or betray their public trust. beginning shortly after the watergate break-in and continuing to the present time, the president has engaged in a series of public statements, and actions designed to thwart the lawful investigation by government prosecutors. moreover the president has made public announcements and assertions, bearing on the watergate case, h

ehrlichman and mr. young. protect their rights. rescue their liberties. from violation. the carolina ratification convention impeachment criteria. those are impeachment who behave amiss or betray their public trust. beginning shortly after the watergate break-in and continuing to the present time, the president has engaged in a series of public statements, and actions designed to thwart the lawful investigation by government prosecutors. moreover the president has made public announcements and assertions, bearing on the watergate case, which the evidence will show he knew to be false. these assertions, false assertions, impeachable, those who misbehave, those who behave amiss, or betray the public trust. james madison again at the constitutional convention. a president is impeachable if he attempts to subvert the constitution. the constitution charges the president with the task of taking care that the laws be faithfully executed. and yet, the president has counseled his aides to commit perjury, willfully disregard the secrecy of grand jury proceedings, conceal surreptit

john ehrlichman. >> is that right? >> who bought mean porcelain birds. >> carl has written for "vanity fair," "time," "usa today," "rolling stone" and "the new republic" in addition to being an abc correspondent. and welcome to him. now it's so exciting to feel taller than somebody. thank you for doing this, elizabeth. elizabeth drew, whatever her actual physical height here is a washington institution. the washington journals she wrote were a citizen's guide to watergate and washington as the nixon presidency was unraveling. i have to tell you, though i read them at the time and reread them some years later, i have been rereading them now, and they really fit the goal that she had which was to explain to people what was going on in a way that would be understandable and comprehensible and illustrative to them of what that time was about 40 years from now. she captured the anxiety and really the insanity of that era. and the thing that's really remarkable about elizabeth is she just never stops reporting. her 14 books

ehrlichman, mr. coleson, all indicted and judged guilty of crimes. in remarks committed to this committee mr. colson i thought spoke rather eloquently to this point. he said and i'm quoting, if i have come to know one truth out of the morass known as watergate it is in our free society when the rights of one individual are threatened the liberties of all of us are threatened. what is done unto everyone may be done unto everyone. there is one other man i reacted to rather poignantly, that was mr. magruder when he was sentenced by the judge. he looked up at the judge and said, your honor i am sorry, i lost my moral compass. my ambition obscured my judgment and now i must look into the eyes of my wife, and see her pain, in the eyes of my children and see their confusion, in the eyes of my fellow man and see their contempt. but he said america will survive the jeb magruders and the watergates and i happen to agree with that principle. mr. chairman, the future of america is not dependent upon the success, the survival of any one man in public office, and

why didn't he say harolderman, ehrlichman, dean, why didn't he just turn you guys to the feds and walkedve. did he ever try to turn on you? >> not till i break ranks. he's very worried about the others and me. i have too much knowledge. he doesn't know what to do. he wants to figure out how to ease everybody out and hopefully that will be enough for the public. it was just a start. i advised him we should all go. >> you knew the president as well, you heard pat out here -- >> i didn't know the president as well as pat. you know, pat is somebody, in all those tapes -- i was just telling pat before we came on, in all those tapes i listened to, nixon has something nasty to say on almost everybody who worked for him but not about pat. he really liked pat. >> stephen: nixon liked him. that's excellent for the tombstone. (laughter) (applause) >> stephen: all right, what did the president know and when did he know it and did -- and do you know what was on the 18 1/2 minutes of the missing tapes? >> i do. what did he know and when? he was deeply involved in the coverup from the beginning. he's n

. >> and she regularly waited on john ehrlichman. >> is that right? >> who bought mean porcelain birds. >> carl has written for "vanity fair," "time," "usa today," "rolling stone" and "the new republic" in addition to being an abc correspondent. and welcome to him. now it's so exciting to feel taller than somebody. thank you for doing this, elizabeth. elizabeth drew, whatever her actual physical height here is a washington institution. the washington journals she wrote were a citizen's guide to watergate and washington as the nixon presidency was unraveling. i have to tell you, though i read them at the time and reread them some years later, i have been rereading them now, and they really fit the goal that she had which was to explain to people what was going on in a way that would be understandable and comprehensible and illustrative

ehrlichman, mr. coleson, all indicted and judged guilty of crimes. in remarks committed to this committee mr. colson i thought spoke rather eloquently to this point. he said and i'm quoting, if i have come to know one truth out of the morass known as watergate it is in our free society when the rights of one individual are threatened the liberties of all of us are threatened. what is done unto everyone may be done unto everyone. there is one other man i reacted to rather poignantly, that was mr. magruder when he was sentenced by the judge. he looked up at the judge and said, your honor i am sorry, i lost my moral compass. my ambition obscured my judgment and now i must look into the eyes of my wife, and see her pain, in the eyes of my children and see their confusion, in the eyes of my fellow man and see their contempt. but he said america will survive the jeb magruders and the watergates and i happen to agree with that principle. mr. chairman, the future of america is not dependent upon the success, the survival of any one man in public office, and

and dick and i went into the white house and met with ehrlichman and ziegler. i think john dean was there. i'm not certain. and tried to figure out how we were going to manage this and how we were going to handle it. we wrote out some statements. then sunday night, we went back to the moores house, had dinner. i'm telling this for a reason. why -- we went home, drove in our driveway and i hear this, dwight, dwight. this guy comes out from behind a tree. i had known him for years through the campaign. it was bob simple of "the new york times" hiding in my front yard. i said, they send a friend here to do this? and he said, i'm so embarrassed. and he said, i just hate being here. but that's how it all got started. >> did segretti call you? >> i don't remember. i don't think so. i talked to him. he's right there. he may remember. i don't remember. i mean, i was too focused on me. >> what was the game plan for you? >> it depends on where you're talking. we have the story, which i want to say was like october 19th or 20th. somewhere in that range. we're coming right

environmental protection after the accident, promoting of affirmative action, endangered species act, ehrlichman was all over that. kissinger works for nixon, not the other way around. >> and haldeman's role? >> haldeman is the hinchman, always over the boss' shoulder. the one person richard nixon could do business with even if it was devious business, the trust between haldeman and nixon is very real. some people say nixon had no friends except a deep love for his wife pat. haldeman was a loyalist and a friend to nixon. >> i think your friend luke said that transcribing the tape was more art than science. what did you mean? >> by transcribing it you have to get into the rhythm of the voices, and what he did great, some of the ones are when nixon is on the telephone, they're easy to tribe. but he is bug camp david, and aspen lodge and all sorts of bugs everywhere. some people would call it inaudible. but with today's technology, and if you get the ear for the voices, luke prevailed, knowing nixon's voice is easy and kissinger, but sometimes there's a southern drawcialtion and you don't know whet

so there's no doubts that there are moments in there with haldeman and er ehrlichman. he desegregated the entire south. did he make bad comments about african americans? probably not as bad as johnson. but his achievements were astonishing in the first term. >> you bring up israel, the 1967 war, whatever responsible for what we're -- somewhat responsible for what we're seeing in that war. what do you think the u.s. role should be? >> i think u.s. role should be to end the war as soon as we can, to off the what's going on especially -- to stop what's going on especially in gaza. 1440 dead, you've got 80% of them civilians. i think enough is enough, the israelis, i hope this temporary humanitarian ceasefire lasts, but i don't see a very bright future to be honest. i think the israelis are not going to get off the west bank, i don't think bibi netanyahu is going to get off the west bank, divide jerusalem. i'm not very optimistic in the long run but i hope in the short run we can stop the worst of what's going on. >> what about ukraine, you wrote we should being isolate pu

>> no, they were looking at particularly ehrlichman, being a lawyer, a good intent good motive doesn't make anything less criminal if you commit the criminal act doesn't matter what your motive is. >> of course, from many questions that have been asked over the years why denied nixon throw everybody under the bus from the beginning because then he might have avoided getting into trouble himself and also aside from getting rid of the people the question is why didn't he get rid of the tapes, he got rid of 18 minutes of them that were erased. you have a whole appendix that deals with the eeras eraseure. >> i don't think people could have had access not so important the who as the what. i understand why it had become an issue with the media. he promised he would do certain things, every time he promised he would do something another gaff would happen. he doesn't have this tape this first tape they have requested june 20th, first conversation back after the arrest, the last one he said i'm sorry it's erased, i know why it's erased, i know why it was erased. two days later, three days later

brookings and, of course, then the break-in that never took place, that he kept pressing halderman and ehrlichman to do and then the break-in at the democratic headquarters, of course, at the watergate. >> they're connected. nixon put together the plumbers, the special investigations unit, this illegal unconstitutional secret police unit that he ran out of the white house in order to do the brookings break-in, that's clear from the tapes. that in and of itself is a crime. and, of course, to the plumbers, g. gordon lidden, e. howard hunt a year later became the masterminds of the watergate break-in. so when the watergate burglars are caught, nixon had to halt the investigation of those because if he didn't it would lead to his own crime of the plumbers break-in at brookings. >> the zin to resign, it became inevitable. we'll talk about that more with howard -- with john dean tomorrow, but it became inevitable when leaders of the senate, gold water and hugh scott went to the white house and said it was over. >> nixon didn't have the one-third of the votes in the house. >> after the house had voted t

ehrlichman didn't know he was being taped. kissinger didn't know he was being taped. it's one-side baseball. you know you're being taped and others don't. kissinger also said, use the tapes assist a source, compare it to memorandum and notes and things, and you'll get a bit of a fuller reading. i agree with all of that. i also think that when somebody does a crime, you focus on the crime f. somebody goes to jail for a crime, it doesn't mean their whole life they didn't do a lot of good things. they may have raised a family well, been a good samaritan. they get busted for something they did wrong. there's much about nixon that people can like and admire. i mentioned earlier in the program about conservation, and nixon was a reluctant environmentalist, but he create the environmental protection agency, clean air and water, and working on oceans. it has to rank as one of the top five voormental precedents. it shocks people that that's nixon, but there it is. with all that said, look, if we can't as scholars care about a fly on the wall in history of everything that's tak

john ehrlichman. the others were either on the president's staff or held responsible positions on the election committee. in the course of its deliberation the grand jury voted unanimously with 19 members concurring that the course of events and the formation and continuation of the conspiracy was such that president nixon among a number of others should be identified as an unindicted co-conspirator in the bill of particulars to be filed in connection with the pre-trial proceedings. now, although this particular decision and determination on the part of the grand jury occurred in february, it was a well kept secret for 2 1/2 months, the grand jury, of course, knew it, members of the prosecution staff knew it. it was done so to avoid affecting the proceedings in the house judiciary committee. it was so kept during this 2 1/2 months until it became necessary to reveal it as a result of the president's motion to quash the subpoena as i will indicate subsequently in my argument. for you to obtain addition

. >> and she regularly waited on john ehrlichman. >> carl has written for "vanity and," "time," "usa today," is an abc corresponded. welcome to him. it is so exciting. thank you for doing this, elizabeth. elizabeth drew, whenever her physical height is a washington institution -- the journal she wrote were really a citizens guide to watergate and washington as of the nixon presidency was unraveling. i have to tell you, though i read them at the time and i read read them some years later, i have been rereading them now. thatreally fit the goal she had, which was to explain to people what was going on in a way that would be understandable and comprehensible, illustrative to them of what that time was about. and theured the anxiety insanity of that era. the thing that is really remarkable, she never stopped her 14 books about washington rivaled bob. when i first started writing, was years ago, her work really the seminal work in that field. we all owe her a debt of gratitude for her work. [applause] finally, ken hughes is a recovering journalist and a researcher at the university of vir