even entities that are at arm's leptionz, who -- length, who share or codetermine wages and working conditions are employers of same group of employees is an old concept. the doctrine plied in this case is well-established. >> election, mcdonald's says yes, if anything is well it's the practice of franchising, and knows people don't work for us. are they right? >> under the counter board precedent that has been law for the last 30 years there's a concept that the board recognised as a precedent. there has to be direct control over things like hiring, firing and other terms and conditions of employment. mcdonald's position would by, believe at this point. that they don't have that direct control. they provide certainly food guidelines, and quality assurance guidelines and record to that. they provide guidelines about how the restaurants themselves need to physically look and give some business general guidelines. they don't have a role in hiring and firing. it would be their position under the current law that they are not joint employees. >> elizabeth carlson, why you describe correctly the st