then you go to npr or even wnyc -- hello! these are people!sons, but suddenly closing your eyes and hearing something became totally not just a thing that people want to do but, for some reason it's a thing people seem increasingly to prefer. but the perspective of 30 years of watching it, you were there at the beginning. i mean, radio has a number of qualities, i think, that -- like a lot of listeners to the show i do, this american life, they've told me there are a wave of shows that when they heard them the first time, they didn't realize radio could do the things we do. i'm told often by people, the first time they heard this american life, they didn't realize a radio story could be good. it could have characters and emotion and you would stick around because you got caught up in it because you would want to know what was going to happen and could deliver all the feelings that drama gives, you know, and be funny and be emotional, and i think, for a lot of people, you know, for a lot of people, they got the news and want more of it. and i f

i do not know what it had to do with wnyc, but it was amazing. >> and sober and reasonable, i am sure. >> i was like, who is this guy? we started talking, and within the first five minutes found out we had five or six spooky symmetries. i went to oberlin 25 years after him. i was working as npr freelancer at the time and he was part of the crew that started npr. it was just one of those things like, i was this echo or something of his life 25 years ago. so we decided we had to have breakfast. >> how is that going to work out for jad, robert? >> we start having breakfast and i am opining and being bold and grand. at one point, jad brings me, this is what i have been working on. i put it on and think, oh no. this is completely new. it is gorgeous. it is strange. it is beautiful. it is new in the world. i said, ok. this is going to sound -- instead of me going ruh ruh ruh, how about you? you seem to know stuff i do not know. i kind of reversed roles, from a mentor to -- to what i have become. if you want to stay in the future and you want to stay in the action, you have to sniff for beau