donald russell. there was charles wiggins. and so on and so forth. now there are very few judges who have had legislative experience. and as members of congress, there are a number of judges who have served on the hill, like richard eaton. but in terms of legislators who had judicial experience, you have alcee hastings. you have senator cornyn, who was on the texas supreme court. it is a very limited number of people in both branches who have had hands-on experience in the other branch. >> can't help but ask though, if you look at the statistics of the numbers are former members of congress and the senate who go into lobbying that makes a tremendous amount of money, how much of this is tied to the fact that judges in the context of the city do not make that much. your chief judge. what is it, $150,000 a year? >> no, it is an increase. but the key is public service as a calling. those of us who are in it really feel privileged to be in it. it is certainly true that i have observed the phenomenon where i am in a court room and everybody arguing the cas