she said, 'oh, clare luce.' and i had just had the idea of the biography, so i thought, 'well, should i go and meet this person because i may not like her or i may like her too much and'--either way, it's not a good frame of mind to write a biography. you have to be somewhat--you have to like but not to be in love with and you certainly, like, have not to hate. but anyway, i went there, and the hostess said, 'well, she won't take any notice of you because she's only interested in men.' so she sat me at ma--at her table and i was across from her, and she sat next to the military historian, actually, alistair horne, who's just come out with a new book, i--i see. and sh--all the whole evening, she just concentrated on talking to him about the m--about military things because that was her--one of her loves. but then at the end of the evening, i was standing at the top of the staircase where she had to--to leave, and she put her hands on my shoulder and i thought she'd mistaken me for the hostess because, you know--a

it's for allister horne, the english historian but said clare booth luce was coming on. nting to meet clare booth luce. but i went and she sat me at her table. and she said she won't take any notice of you. she is only interested in men. and that was true. she just zeroed in on mr. horne the whole evening. but she did notice me because when she left that evening, she gave me a hug. and i thought that's really odd. did she mistake me for the hostess who is also short and dark. anyway, apparently not. and so i wrote her a letter. and several other circumstances conspired that people thought i should do this book. >> rose: she was amazing to me also because she kept everything. she kept all notes and pictures. >> everything. >> rose: everything that was a krap book paper of her life, she collected which is why i thought she probably wanted to write her life herself. >> she did mean to. always mean to. >> but couldn't because of harry. >> because of harry and telling the truth, she had had many affairs it would have meant revealing a great deal which what have embarrassed the

her book "rage for fame" covered clare boothe luce.n the list of the most admired women for her glamorous existence. morris has published a second volume called "price of fame." i am pleased to have sylvia jukes morris at this table. what is it about you that has caused you to spend a number of years with her? >> it seems like half my life. i think you got it. she was so multifaceted. she was good at everything she tried to do. that started trying out for the olympic swimming team. going on to have those fantastic careers. playwright. ambassador. congresswoman. everything she did, she succeeded. she was always insecure. she didn't have what she called the american express card of a really good education. she never went to college. >> she was admired for a conversationalist. >> a brilliant conversationalist, and witty. a lot of her lines are immortal. "the difference between an optimist and a pessimist is the pessimist is usually better informed." [laughter] >> she once said, "he is paranoid, and he has a lot to be paranoid about." when

questionedan who marital bliss me 1950's was clare booth luce. women -- even though domestic relationships predominate the way most minimum were living --ir lives, clare booth luce she was married to the owner of "time" magazine. she is also widely admired because it is a public career. she served in congress, she was a rider, she advocated careers for women. she was a journalist in world war ii. suggesting, as is some of the public opinion polls and the interest in kinsey thathristine jorgensen -- while women may be living under these rubrics of traditional values are thinking quite some, if not all, of the alternatives. finally, there is the interesting and unpredictable consequence of this growing families.hin married the point here is this. ii,now that after world war there was this wave of marriages, pregnancies, births, homebuying, suburbanization, and consumerism. remember, during the war, americans were only producing more goods. planes, tanks, guns. there were not tv sets, houses, all of that consumer stuff. and during world war ii, peopl

another woman who often appeared on these lists in the 1950's was clare booth luce. again, we get the idea of the interest that women, even though domestic arrangements predominated the way most men and women were living there adult lives, domestic marital relations, clare booth luce -- she was married to the owner of "time" magazine. but she is also widely admired because she has a public career. she served in congress, she was a writer, she advocated careers for women. she was a journalist in world war ii. she wrote from the war zones, widely admired. these women are suggesting, as of the public opinion response to kinsey's books and the popular interest to christine jurgensen -- jorgensen, that while people may be living under these rubrics of traditional values are thinking quite strongly about and are interested in some, if not all, of the alternatives. and, finally, there is the interesting and unpredictable or unintended, perhaps, consequence of this growing desire for consumer goods within married families themselves. and the point here is this. we know that,

her book traces the life of clare boothe luce from her birth to successful race for congress and all of her successes and ambitions in between. c-span: sylvia jukes morris, your book, "rage for fame: the ascent of clare boothe luce"--where did you get the title? >> guest: well, you know, sometimes, as with chapter headings, i didn't know what to call a chapter until i'd written it. and one day i was reading clare's yearbook when she was a child at st. mary's school in garden city, and she was about 14 years old, and in the yearbook, there was a picture of her, and underneath she had written, 'a rage for fame attends both great and small.' i thought, 'well, that's pretty smart for a 14-year-old.' but then i thought, 'well, maybe she got it from somewhere,' so i did some researchnd