mr. van rokel. and indeed, your closeness to individuals such as henry ciao, chief information officer at cms and michelle snider, then chief operating officer at cms and the number two official is evidence in many e-mails that we have seen in your conversations with him. if you are not the leader, then why was mr. van rokel looking toward you for guidance. and if you are so close to cms that it concerned your co-chair, then surely you were in just fine a position to answer our questions about the website and should have done so a year ago. >> so, sir, thank you for the opportunity to discuss this particular e-mail. as i recall, i think this was precipitated by the fact that i had assisted, as i said in my opening testimony with a red team exercise cms had engaged in to basically assess risks and identify mitt gaytive actions to bit gait those risks in early 2013. steve was actually not involved with that, and he was expressing, concerned about the fact that he wasn't synched up and was worried abou