. >> "america tonight" sits with cardinal theodore - well respected archbishop in a conversation abouthallenges facing pope francis. in the christmas message pope francis critical of the upper leadership saying that they are basically power hungry. is that true? >> you know what i think you have a large group of people and maybe more careerist than angelical. >> worried about their own rise in the church. >> we are living in a world where people say you have to get a promotion, you have to do better. no one wants to be a lieutenant second grade when you can be a lieutenant first grade. >> an embarrassing moment for the church was the bishop of blink living in a lafish lifestyle. pope francis called him out for that. will more bishops and cardinals be called out for living a lavish lifestyle. >> i don't know. i think he made the point that we are supposed to live like everybody else lives. >> there has to be some descension regarding the comments. >> i guess there are you have to know the man. he's a straightforward person calling a spade a spade. sometimes it might be nice to call a sp