bob herbert was a long-time columnist for "the new york times." i am jay booker. a write for the atlantic constitution. >> we were just discussing the challenges. i miss your column. i miss that you reported and went out to talk to people and harder american voices and i think that is missing in a lot of american journalism. >> a lot of leg work. >> it shows in your book here. ordinary someone in my position is supposed to say how much i liked reading your book and frankly i did not enjoy reading your book. your book made me angry, frustrated frustrated, frightened but i kind of sensed that is okay by you. >> that is fine by me. that is the point. exactly >> maybe you can walk us through. >> guest: sure. i left the times in 2011 and a lot of people asked if i miss writing for them and the short answer is no. i tell people 41 years on deadline is enough. that is how long i was in the business. i was a columnist at the daily news and then at the new york city times. so i don't miss it. but one of the things i wanted to do was spend a little more time getting more in

joining me now, bob herbert, author of "losing our way, an intimate portrait of a troubled america."ton connelly. michelle chen contributing editor at in these times and co-host of a podcast and patrick gleason, director of state affairs at americans for tax reform. dalton, i want to start with you about the ways in which college either widens or narrows inequality in this country and particularly whether or not you think this plan to provide more community college access will widen or narrow inequality. >> well the returns to a college education in terms of later earnings are higher than they have ever been in history and getting higher every year. if we don't do something, college will serve to wooindiden the gap and reduce economic mobility even more. i greatly support this program. i think there's a few tweaks that need to be made but it's a great step forward and the best program since the g.i. bill of the '50s. >> but on that return because i'm a college professor, i probably have predisposed to like the idea of more people going to college, but on the other hand when we looked

joining me now is bob herbert, former "new york times" columnist and distinguished senior fellow. nk you for being here bob. and happy new year. >> happy new year reverend, great to be here. >> so bob, stop and frisk was reformed this year and crime still went down. doesn't it show that smarter, more sensitive policing can work. >> well we knew the stop and frisk didn't have anything to do with fighting crime, because the overwhelming number of people that they were stopping and searching and humiliating, had not done anything wrong. so that was a red herring. it was ridiculous. i was never worried about crime going up as a result of stop and frisk going by the boards. >> the mayor said today it was disrespectful to officer liu's family the deceased policeman, who was viciously killed, it was disrespectful to his family for officers to turn their backs at the funeral. you've covered this city for a long time. what was your reaction? >> well my reaction is that the police department embarrassed themselves, those officer who is turned their back on the mayor. i do think it's importan