off target, you told a target and i'm old enough to remember this very well, a man named charles joseph whitman who went to the top of the tower of the university of texas back in the mid 1960's and my memory is he killed like 13 people and wounded another 30 or something like that. but the thing i didn't know about was the connection to the brain. what's the story? >> so for teenagers, we're talking a lot about what the implications of what we know about the frontal lobe and its lack of connectivity, does this change the way we think about how responsible they are for doing criminal acts? in fact, while i was going through this process i got involved in a couple of am cuss briefs to the supreme court -- amicus briefs to the supreme court around life without parole for teenagers, if they are accused of a serious crime. and we reasoned in this that there was an absolute life without parole for kids between 13 and 17 if they had committed a capital crime and we were saying that may be what has to happen but it shouldn't be without any exceptions. there should be the opportunity to review on a cas

incarcerated, we may be better off trying to work on rehabilitating these kids. >> but on charles joseph whitman, after it was over, they did a --i don't remember how he died -- killed himself i think? i'm not sure. he wanted in his note an autopsy and they found a brain tumor. >> in his frontal lobe, yes. >> what would that have done to him? >> well, this is the point. his frontal lobes were being encroached upon by a brain tumor, so they weren't functioning normally. it was like he didn't have his full set of frontal lobes. again, leading to impulsive acts without knowledge and judgment of cause and effect. >> are you saying that kind of individual, he was like 26 years old, but that kind of individual shouldn't have a life sentence? >> i'm not saying that at all. i think we have a long way to go around this. but antonin scalia thinking about adolescence actually made the statement, is adolescence akin to mental retardation? should you actually think of a certain age groups, do they have a natural disability, not of course disease like a tumor would be an explanation for somebody but you find