and then to the union, the federal union. here's the key idea. i am going to throw this back at you. equality is crucial. we talked before about you can't have consent without equality. and every -- prof. gallagher: you cannot have coercion. prof. onuf: no. every level of union, whether it be on the town level, the union of families, or the county level, the union of towns, those unions exist to preserve and perpetuate the equality of their constituent units. do you follow me? that's pretty straightforward. in other words, the legitimacy the value of the union of the town is that all families will be treated equally and have an equal voice in their own government. and you move up the ladder, that imperative remains. and that is, union depends on preserving equality of constituent units, because otherwise, some are benefiting at the expense of other -- that's another way of saying that some are ruling the others. you know, the great problem with unions throughout our periods is the fear that it's going to be captured by the bad guys. and one thing

meant in the centrality of union during the war from films? take any films. matt: i don't think so. we talked about spielberg's most recent union -- most recent movie, but the takeaway is about african american soldiers. that's a movie that also is about union. i don't think there is a comparable -- gangs of new york is a movie that is only set there during the civil war very but it really happens in the 1840's. john: you get a very confederate version of the union in gangs of new york because of the wonderful shot in new york where the immigrants are coming off the boat and they are being hustled over and put in uniform and put back on a boat from which they are taking union soldier coffins. it's a very lost cause. matt: those are literally soldiers you don't know what they are fighting for over there going. joan: i think once reconciliation became the dominant way of interpreting civil war from the earliest 20th century through maybe the 1960's, the union cause was demolished, diminished vanquished. it really is not cinematic as well. lincoln

did the union kill the herald tribune? 40 years, united auto worker presidents walter reuther, leonard woodcock and douglas fraser won higher pay for their members. why in 1979 would fraser agree to take less? employers and labor unions like buyers and sellers, try to make the best deal for themselves. labor and management: how do they come to terms? with economic analyst richard gill we'll examine that question on this edition of economics usa. i'm david schoumacher. fewer than 1/3 of american workers are covered by union contract. but organized labor's strength at the economy's pressure points-- the big smokestack industries, the arteries of transportation and communication-- make them a force to be reckoned with. for more than 75 years labor unions have been a fact of american economic l how did they get pow? we are childn ofmmigrants. the largest number came here around the turn of the century. millions, most of them jewish or italian, unskilled and uneducated settled in new york city's crowded tenements. what kind of w

that's the only reason. unions do not want and neither do politicians a permanent fix to the minimum wage because if you index it to inflation, that would kill unions because the only way unions are gaining membership is because they're paying people, spending tens of millions of dollars. we'll get you $15 an hour. why $15? it was $10. because it sounds so much better. unions are dying here and using this as a way to recruit. >> emily, give us some feedback on that. >> look, i do think it is incredibly cynical. are unions advocating on behalf of their members, yes, that is what we do. are they trying to unionize more shops? yes, that is what they do because then they have collective bargaining in the places and a better chachbs for the workers to actually get a living wage. $15 gets them to a living wage, if you wanted to get them to take people out of poverty on a regular amount of hours working that would be $10.10. we want people out of poverty working people. >> it should be -- >> hold on. >> i don't want to be

as it was, the union as it might be the union with slavery the union without slavery. it is complicated. matt: i would say at a base level, the actual expectation is really much lower than we might think. to be a loyal citizen in the union is to support the war. when a friend says, if you are in favor of the war, you say yeah. be honest. don't cheat. there are multiple ways where you can be dishonest and keep this -- cheat the system. you can't do that. the last thing, the second half of the war don't whine. a loyal citizen doesn't whine. that is articulated over and over in all sorts of ways. you don't have to do anything, but follow the rules and don't whine. gary: that would mean, don't sell shoddy goods to the government for use in the war effort. is that something you could do to break the rules? matt: it is fine to profit off the war and sell stuff. it is built upon capitalism. it is not fine to cheat by selling goods that fall apart. it is not fine to sell materials that don'

because he was unable to break through the union army. general lee and general grant would be at mclean's home and surrender. at 3:30 on the afternoon of april 9 the surrender had taken place. i would like to close with in my years at appomattox court house national historical park, i had the opportunity to converse with thousands of visitors and with -- get the story on what that placement to them. many, particularly southerners found a sad environment which they care to eradicate in their mind. i empathize with them, as do many. the appomattox surrendered represented a way of life to a long-ago generation. i would agree the story of appomattox is indeed a sad one. sad that we as an intelligent democratic society could find no other alternative to our disagreements than the field of conflict. this war would lose the talents of over half a million men who might have served future generations to a better capacity than canon fodder. in a broader sense, appomattox symbolized to our nation a new beginning on its path of destiny. the question o

war i'm curious about that if the union versus the confederates had more militia? >> actually it was i believe in 1864 that the conscription of local reserves or militia took place in the south. i will use, for example, the third virginia reserves which came from this area. these men were on call for duty. they did not like the third virginia stay at high bridge all the time. only when they were threatened by federal cavalry raids would they go out. usually they were equipped with more inferior weapons than the main army. i would say at at this point the majority of the con fed lat army were still regulars and seasoned veter rans. now, the difference between lee's army, of course by being in a siege operation around richmond and petersburg, i always referred to that 9 1/2 month campaign as the wearing down of lee's army because, as tracy mentioned yesterday, most of fighting was for cutting the supply lines coming into petersburg and richmond. but, also, by this time the union forces were now much better than they had been through the war, of course, for the most p

as it was, the union as it might be the union with slavery the union without slavery. it is complicated. matt: i would say at a base level, the actual expectation is really much lower than we might think. to be a loyal citizen in the union is to support the war. when a friend says, if you are in favor of the war, you say yeah. be honest. don't cheat. there are multiple ways where you can be dishonest and keep this -- cheat the system. you can't do that. the last thing, the second half of the war don't whine. a loyal citizen doesn't whine. that is articulated over and over in all sorts of ways. you don't have to do anything, but follow the rules and don't whine. gary: that would mean, don't sell shoddy goods to the government for use in the war effort. is that something you could do to break the rules? matt: it is fine to profit off the war and sell stuff. it is built upon capitalism. it is not fine to cheat by selling goods that fall apart. it is not fine to sell materials that don't match the contract. it is fine to get filthy rich off the rules. gary: is it fine not

second, do you support the basic process by which union contracts are negotiated at the state level? thank you. professor mccann: i am not an expert. i know that pension issues are legislative issue, that does not mean unions to not have a role in that. they meet with the governor and present the case, and the governor presents that to the legislature which decides how to do with that. that means there are ongoing negotiations after the budget, which means the governor rarely gets the budget that the governor wants. at least in washington state. i am sure there is a lot of room if there is a fully transparent process, but that is for than undercutting the protector unions the same as the problem. the politicians on the one who determine what the nature of the process is. i would turn it back to that is a political question, not something that is the fault of the liability of the public sector unions. ross reynolds: let's bring it back over the side. >> my name is karen strickland. i am a former community college teacher. there's a little context for you. [laughter] i'm a longtime acti

with that, the union sixth corps turns south, leaving a gap for the union 24th core that has now been brought to petersburg to go through and head toward petersburg. at that point, lee is going to send a message to the confederate secretary of war john breckenridge, and breckenridge is going to have that message forwarded to the president of the confederate states, who is in church service on the morning of april 2. that telegraph said "i see no prospect of doing more than holding our position here until night. i am not certain i can do that. i advised that all operations be made for leaving richmond tonight." shortly after, the union's second corps engages the confederate army west of petersburg. they will end up severing the south side railroad, and now lee has no reason to stay. he simply wishes to stay long enough to gather up his army without having to fight street by street for their retreat. he is only allowed to do that because of the confederate resistance there, to the south and west of town, at two little, uncompleted forts, fort greg and fort woodward, which managed to hol

the longer this the longer this war went on the mormon the union can bring to bear for the more union army's would come from the south and cause damage. he thought that the south social worker with snap. basically he thought basically he thought that he had to break the north political we will. and so that's why you find them so devoted to the concept of trying to destroy the union army. even after his greatest victories is extremely frustrated. he doesn't celebrated. the union army got away and a way that he felt he had to destroy the union army. time was not necessarily on his side. >> i came across an interesting comment. making dictator. >> it was published in newspapers at the time. they openly said basically george washington was essentially a dictator at the end of the revolutionary war. lee was never interested in that. he thought that he could barely do what he had to do to oversee the army in virginia. how could he possibly take responsibility for anything else? that said he does enough accepting the title of general in chief of all the confederate forces which makes his job

and so he decides, well, i'm going to deploy the union cavalry all along the front. union cavalry by 1865 is not the same cavalry you would have found early on in the war. no longer is this a group of mounted men who ride and raids to get information who picket roads, who pull their sabers and go to slashing at one another across open fields. the union cavalry of 1865 is akin to any type of modern force that may use as a mechanic anized infantry. they're primarily armed with a seven shot repeating car beam the spencer. and because of that, they can leave one man mounted. he controls three other horses while those three men move forward on foot to engage the enemy. and using the superiority of the firepower having the literally firing power of 21 confederate soldiers with single shot weapons, they're able to either subdue their target or fall back to their horses and maneuver to another position on the battlefield. they simply hold them in place while the union fifth corps falls in on the eastern flank. as the union fifth corps arrives on the battlefield, they encounte

another thing the union cavalry used on this campaign and tracy ably talked about what the union cavalryas at this point of the war, they wore confederate uniforms and took the persona of -- i think they took the ninth virginia cavalry, fake southern accents, and what they would do is running into the confederate line. they would tell the teamsters go the mules or the horses. as much as they could, interrupt the confederate army. a group of north carolina cavalry under general rufus behringer made a stand at the church. they were pushed back by custer's cavalry. as they fell back they ran into this group of masquerading confederate cavalry who proceeded to capture general rufus behringer. he becomes the first confederate general to be taken prisoner on this campaign. you had these union soldiers dressed as confederates and they were spies. did that answer your question? 's tomorrow we will go into greater detail on the battles. -- where did ron -- did that answer your question, ron? well, tomorrow we will go into , greater detail on the battles. in fact, somebody told me -- pat was telli

hugh can see how the military maneuvers of the union and the confederate army brought the army to appomattox. that is not where he planned to go. he was still planning on going to north carolina. he had been able to break through this union surrounding maneuver. his next movement was not to lynchburg but the campbell courthouse. this is present-day restaurant virginia. trying to reach danville once again. after the attack on the night of april 8, after three night marches in a row, lee's army goes in the morning of april 9. there is the battle of appomattox. when i used to work at appomattox people would always say, i guess general lee got here to this pretty village and decided to surrender. that is not the case. because of the battle of appomattox on the morning of april 9, lee was forced to surrender. generally and general grant would be at mclean's home and surrender. at 3:30 on the afternoon of april 9 the surrender had taken place. i would like to close with in my years at appomattox i had the opportunity to converse with thousands of visitors and with the story of that placement to th

that night three enslaved men made their way to the union army's expedition. the next morning they were interrogated. they explained why they were there. they believed the union government should provide them sanctuary since they were trying to support the union. eventually, butler agreed with the argument and changed the course of the war. initially, it was just a small trickle then it became a flood and then a tidal wave. butler's actions was not just a humanitarian gesture. he planned to employ in exchange for food and supplies to help the union troops. butler's goal did not matter. he had plan. word quickly spread and thousands of these freedom seekers fled to fort monroe and to all places where the union army was in the south. those men often didn't come alone. some arrived with their entire families necessitating a system of organize that would employ all of these individuals. although they were compensated for their work the $10 wage was not paid to the worker but placed in a general fund to be used for rationing provisions and for the worker and his fam

gannon: the blue union boys were all heroes. people said things like there were not any african-americans there and there was a tale of what the 1913 reunion was like. the newspaper covers it that way. they're all american heroes. they were all americans because that is the way americans are. they are heroes. they were trying to merge the confederates and u.s. military tradition together to prove that we are all americans, all heroes, and sort of embrace it. they were americans. that is the way we are. that was the thought process. they had this reunion. there is sort of this party line . i read a lot of newspapers that covered it. the great heroes of this union were pickett's charge. not broke americans -- heroic americans in central pennsylvania. the new york age tried the central reunion to the current situation of african-americans jim crow and disenfranchisement. their view was about the national syndicate. they were talking about newspapers and business. they wanted business between the sections. that is why they wanted reu

and he's rewarded by lincoln and the union administrate for he's made military governor once the union is occupied of the state. and as military governor, m.g. johnson rules with a heavy hand. he really does the bidding of the republican administration. and lincoln, johnson owned a few slaves, but he comes to embrace emancipation as a military necessity, a way to punish the confederates and rob them of resources. so lincoln turns to johnson in 1864 in the sense on political expediency, there are two calculations here. one is that lincoln is worried about his election, famously he writes he fears he may not be reelected at all. and he's trying to build a coalition of those who support the union war effort and he wants democrats in that coalition, not the peace democrats, but the war democrats who represent most democrats. he wants the war democrats in his coalition. andy johnson represents that. this is a good way, in fact the republican party in 1864, we forget this rechrissens itself the national union party. the purpose here is to say this is a big tent for all those people who want

united states and the union of the states there under. >>> jesse is a prisoner of war under the unionlag and must surrender before his wounds are treated. but he has no intention of giving up. even if the confederacy is defeated. >> for jesse james this is not an end of his conflict. this is the end of someone else's conflict not jesse james' conflict not frank james' conflict. their conflict isn't over. it's still going on. >> with northern interests in power across missouri frank and jesse join forces with a group of brothers who share their fierce hatred for the yankees. the youngers lost their father and family home to the union and served under bloody bill anderson in his brutal campaign of terror. >> they honed that relationship. they realize the potential they had as a fighting force. >> well, just taking the place. >> taking the place? >> the head again federal authority and everything they saw as being oppressors in their lives. >> everyone on the ground now. >> get down! >> it makes sense, then, to express your outrage by robbing banks. put the money in the bag now! >> we ro

united states and the union of the states there under. >>> jesse is a prisoner of war under the unionlag and must surrender before his wounds are treated. but he has no intention of giving up. even if the confederacy is defeated. >> for jesse james this is not an end of his conflict. this is the end of someone else's conflict, not jesse james' conflict, not frank james' conflict. their conflict isn't over. it's still going on. >> with northern interests in power across missouri frank and jesse join forces with a group of brothers who share their fierce hatred for the yankees. the youngers lost their father and family home to the union and served under bloody bill anderson in his brutal campaign of terror. >> they honed that relationship. they realize the potential they had as a fighting force. >> well, just taking the place. >> taking the place? >> the head again federal authority and everything they saw as being oppressors in their lives. >> everyone on the ground now. >> get down! >> it makes sense, then, to express your outrage by robbing banks. put the money in the bag now! >> we

poised to join the union. u.s. tor steven douglas proposes a controversial plan, splitting the two in half. >> this leaves the decision on whether a new territory would be slavery-free to the voters. >> this is no triumph. peace to the country and stability for the union. >> from the chaos, a voice of reason emerges in abraham lincoln. >> white man takes his man to the slave and as much as you do not object to my taking my in nebraska, therefore i must not object to your taking your slave. now, i admit this is perfectly logical. if there, in fact, is no difference between hogs and negros. >> despite lincoln's effort, the kansas, nebraska, act is passed, the decision that expands slavery. this settles nothing and ignites a firestorm and divides kansas and nebraska and battle lines are drawn in jesse's hometown. they face off against abolitionists called jayhawkers. >> these were men on both sides of the union rebels divide fighting at a local level using brutal tactics. >> on the james' family farm, zerelda is busy s

the details. some angry union soldiers scratched in the brick there with a chalk or knife, devil. this photograph was made on april 20th. you don't think there was some union soldiers in town that felt that way afterbout lee. sure. remember 9/11. fearful, scared, same thing. that's what lee and brady were conspireing to take on. it's over. you don't have to hurt us anymore. so these images as we've seen time and again it's easy to focus on lee, grant. when you look with the eyes, which we can now, you see people that look like us, like you and me. people that have wants and aspirations and dreams and hopes for the future like you and me. all you've got to do is go to the library of congress and look. thank you all very much. now [ applause ] no now you can see why i say that's one of coolest war presentations. lay it on me. >> i'm susan hilliard. we were fortunate enough to see your 3-d show at the round table. it's one of the best shows we've ever had. i read the article that patrick was referring to in the virginia historical society. finished it last night. >> what did you think

and he's forced to take an oath pledging loyalty to the union. pport and defend the constitution and the union of the united states there under. jesse is a prisoner of war and must surrender before his wounds are treated. but he has no intention of giving up. even if the confederacy is defeated. >> for jesse james, this is not the end of his conflict. it is the end of someone else's conflict and not jesse and frank james conflict. it is not over. it is still going on. with northern interest in power across missouri, frank and jesse join forces with a group of brothers that share hatred for the yankees. the ungers lost their home and family to the union and served under bloody bill anderson. >> the jams and unger ares knew each other well before that civil war and they realized the potential for a fighting force. >> are you ready? >> well, it is just matter of picking the place. >> picking the place. >> they had to do something to strike back against the federal authorities and everything that they saw as being oppressors in their lives. >> everyon

confederacy and for the union the representative, the hope that white southerners might be co-opted and brought on board. and for the confederacy they they were a thorn in the side. the represented dissent. >> east tennessee had an active grand army of the republic. and did everything you would have in the north. you needed -- they had run out of southerners in that area. you needed a map to control the public space. elsewhere, the grand army republic, it was african-americans who cap memorial day alive in many places. they were the ones when they couldn't get to it, they would decorate the national cemeteries. african-americans are very key. there are pockets. there have to be enough people to be able to command the public space quite -- space. >> there was a huge peace movement in north carolina. that was dampened down because of various reasons. one was a charismatic governor was able to attack emancipation and turn it around. they were sick of the world are -- the war. you couldn't say they wouldn't have then happy to be back in

the union contention will arrive on a confederate train. this second meeting will take place at the surrender oak. large oak tree with huge spreading branches. it's the only surrender meeting that takes place outside. this is what it looks like today. the oak tree was lost in a 1906 hurricane. for years it was a local landmark and it's still source of pride for the town. it's a little roadside stop with this historic marker. in this department, taylor has about 42,000 men and at this second meeting which takes place on may 4th taylor will agree to the same terms as at appomattox. the men are paroled and able to go home, turn over their military weapons and equipment. just like with the north carolina situation the confederate troops are camped up here. union army is down here in mobile and is moving into montgomery. there's no union soldiers in sight when these men laid down their weapons in camp and began the journey home. to the north in upper mississippi, general nathan lee forest had his cavalry command part of this department and forest

that night three enslaved men made their way to the union army's expedition. the next morning they were interrogated. they explained why they were there. they believed the union government should provide them sanctuary since they were trying to support the union. eventually, butler agreed with the argument and changed the course of the war. initially, it was just a small trickle then it became a flood and then a tidal wave. butler's actions was not just a humanitarian gesture. he planned to employ in exchange for food and supplies to help the union troops. butler's goal did not matter. he had plan. word quickly spread and thousands of these freedom seekers fled to fort monroe and to all places where the union army was in the south. those men often didn't come alone. some arrived with their entire families necessitating a system of organize that would employ all of these individuals. although they were compensated for their work the $10 wage was not paid to the worker but placed in a general fund to be used for rationing provisions and for the worker and his fam

was to make the union whole again. re never in the cards. there was a powerful sense on the part of the people in the union that confederates had been led astray by their leaders and if they could just be distant drawled, they could be right back into the national old and a profound hope that mercy and magnanimity would speed that process. we see in the same newspapers debating the nature of the terms, we see americans congratulating themselves on the civil way they ended their civil war. these are sort of two sides of the appomattox story. host: let's see if we can get one more call from joann in new jersey. postcode go ahead. caller: i was not aware that she was on grant staff. what was his job on staff? what happened to robert lincoln? we never hear about that anymore except for that time on the train? is her any literature on him or a way to know what happened to that man? >> the best lincoln biographies out there will help you follow up that story. lincoln's role at appomattox was not a major one. he was a soldier

second, do you support the basic process by which union contracts are negotiated at the state level? thank you. professor mccann: i am not an expert. i know that pension issues are legislative issue, that does not mean unions to not have a role in that. they meet with the governor and present the case, and the governor presents that to the legislature which decides how to do with that. that means there are ongoing negotiations after the injury that budget, which means the governor rarely gets the budget that the governor wants. at least in washington state. i am sure there is a lot of room if there is a fully transparent process, but that is for than undercutting the protector unions the same as the problem. the politicians on the one who determine what the nature of the processes. i would turn it back to that is a political question, not something that is the fault of the viability of the public sector unions. ross reynolds: let's bring it back over the side. >> my name is karen strickland. i am a former community college teacher. there's a little context for you. [laughter] i'm a lo

for them the union victory vindicated black freedom and racial justice. at appomattox blacks were among the liberators and the liberated. in the last clash of grant and lee at the end of the desperate chase across the countryside that we heard about from many angles. lee's army tried to break free of the federal trap to find the last escape route was blocked by black soldiers in blue. six regiments of the united states color troops with one other waiting in the wings. when they heard confirmation of lee's capitulation, the ex aultation knew no bounds and they sang and their jubilation knew no joy. and this was black life in america. they included southerners ex slaves trained at kentucky's camp nelson, a training ground for troops recruited in the south and included northern free blacks trained at philadelphia camp william penn and men would become race leaders in the post war era and george washington williams and baptist editor william j. simons a mentor to ida wells and included the reg meants, a man george edmondson a decentent of the monticello family

for the north, the union is not abstract, it is concrete. so, if you sit down in alabama virginia, how will you take to this rhetoric coming from the yankees up north? what will you respond? >> it was not treason. jennifer murray: right. so what is the south going to do? we are switching gears. the south will create their own constellation of civil war memories. and the south will create and perpetuate the very same notion of the lost cause. so reconciliation is the dominant theme of post-civil war america, but it is not monolithic. it is changing. and when you take union veterans and confederate veterans and you stack their memories together, you get a complicated and colorful tapestry of civil war memories. everyone remembers things differently, particularly in the northern and southern divide. this is relative to what we talked about last time when you read out of james foster possible -- foster's book. so the southerners will not passively accept the allegations of treason that the northerners are placing on them. they will be proactive i

the term applies to union soldiers. and its example october 30th 1864 in relation to lincoln's re-election with us far from being a subject of fear it is our glory and pride that the wharf of the union has been upheld by a million of thinking bayonets. when people talk about union soldiers, they are often luched together. one of my mishsions is to change that. and to point out that the real rebels of the civil war with union soldiers. this was truly the people's army. the demographics of the union armies were citizen soldiers. of the white soldiers, approximately one quarter were foreign-born. the predominance being from germany, ireland and france. their back grounds were interesting. about 50% of them had agricultural backgrounds. only about 2% were professionals. but abraham lincoln made a distinction in his message to congress on july 4, 1861. and he pointed out that within any resonance, he of course, is actually right. they went into congress, they joined the professions, lawyers other professionals, engineers. tha

and stability for the union. of reason emerges in abraham lincoln. >> white man takes the slave to america now. who will inform the negro, is free. you don't object to me taking my hog to nebraska, therefore i must not object to you taking your slaves. i admit it is perfectly logical if there is no difference between hogs and negros. the kansas- nebraska act is passed and expands slavery. and the vote ignites a fire storm. violence divides nebraska and kansas and spilling over in western missouri and battle lines are drawn in jesse's hometown. and bush whackers face off against the abolitionist. these men on both sides of the divide fighting in a local level and using brutal tactics. on the james' family farm she is busy shaping the next generation of bush whackers and she sos it as her duty to fight for the confederacy. >> don't take anything from the yankees. it is every man's responsibility to hang o. >> her coaching is what criminalologist is violence conditioning. we own slaves and no one is taking that away

to the union soldiers who were going home, they were going home with victory. they could see it in the rent blood and dogwoods that followed . the renewal of spring the renewal of the country, the renewal of spirit and life -- they were going to survive, most of them. for the african-american former slaves they must have seen something only perhaps unique to them. and might not have been about redemption yet. they did not know where their life was going, but they knew that they had just experienced a tremendous change of their lives . that renewal of spring meant a new beginning like no other. now -- it is magnificent, nsa, a pamphlet written in 1961, the great southern poet and novelist historian, robert padawan said many great things about the civil war. start with the red war and legacy of the civil war in 1961. in it he said that the civil war draws us like an oracle, darkly portentous and personal, as well as national in fate. that is a mouthful, but what did he just say? [laughter] soldiers are shouting, drums will be beating, and we will hear that trump t