lois learner in contempt. a statute that says they shall refer that to the grand jury. they look there for ten months and two days or so roughly before they step away from that job and says you know what? we just think it's shouldn't be referred. that is a potential hearing and maybe something we'll look at later. what we're going to find today is there are 24,000 e-mails potentially that were destroyed. it's a instruction of evidence. we want to pursue the facts. there are democrats on the other side of the line other side of the aisle that say there is nothing here. let's move on. it noes big deal. let the evidence speak. but when there is a destruction of evidence that goes to a whole other level. five of the six sources the irs didn't even look. and yet we've had multiple, multiple testimonies from the irs commissioner saying oh, we're working so hard. we eventual all the people we're spending millions of dollars. they're taking all the resources. they didn't look in the most obvious places like her phone.

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-- holds lois learner in contempt. a statute that says they shall refer that to the grand jury. they look there for ten months and two days or so roughly before they step away from that job and says, you know what? we just think it's shouldn't be referred. even though the statute says it shall, and that is a potential hearing and maybe something we'll look at later. but part of what we're going to find today is there are some 24,000 e-mails, potential e-mails that were destroyed. it's a destruction of evidence. we want to pursue the facts. i know there are democrats on the other side of the aisle that say there's nothing here, let's move on it's no big deal. let the evidence speak. but when there is a destruction of evidence, that goes to a whole other level. one of the things we're going to hear from the inspector general today is that five of the six sources where they could find this e-mail, the irs didn't even look. and yet we've heard multiple, multiple testimonies from the irs commissioner saying, oh, we're worki

scandal saying irs workers erased more than 400 backup tapes that contained 24,000 e-mails from lois learner who used to run the division. it happened months after the e-mails were subpoenaed. >> we have testimony from the irs commissione only to find out they have been degauzeing the tapes and they destroyed evidence. that is what they did. we are just trying to get them and read them and figure out what is going on. everyone is pushing for political revelations and there is nothing to see here. years later we are looking for the e-mails and getting new revelation. and beyond the criminal part that is important and can't be dismissed. this is what infurriates people. how many times has the can just been kicked down the proceed? >> lawmakers have to say do our words mean nothing. do they have disregard for people? >> unless they do something for people that erase the e-mails we can look forward to seeing more of this happen. there has to be consequences. believe me, i will telling my husband this. >> it tells me the consequences in this are better than the consequences of us reading the e-ma

worse, the first amendment protections on targeted groups were violated, even stated by lois learner in a public for im. there has been no accountability of individuals misleading congress and making untrue statements which we've established here, in hearings this week we're seeing a trend whereby government agencies do a great job of safeguarding data and e-mails from our government but allow our enemies to breach them with skill. an this is a grotesque double standard on the rights of american citizens. if they use the same untrue statements on records provided to an irs audit they would likely be brought up on charges if an american citizen used the same standard, making untrue statements, saying, well i thought that was the case, but maybe it wasn't but i don't have the records and i can't send them to you. there would be fines and prosecutions, more than likely. we urge you to use a similar standard in holding the irs accountable for those that have lied to congress and in your investigations, to resolve and restore confidence that our government can act with integrity and act c

this happened a month after we learned about lois learner's missing e-mails and all of a sudden 422 backupude elaced. a jesse pinkman move. >> really is. frock breaking -- from "breaking bad." whoa would the irs destroy this evidence unless they're hiding something that is increme nateing? >> -- incriminating. >> that's the question. the oversight economyee is asking. we're spending this money week putting these man hours in to get to the bottom of what was in these e-mails and explanations this was a coincidence i think they stretch credibility. >> the whole point of having backup tapes is to back something up and yet they destroyed these tapes. unimaginable. the inspector general is saying that irs workers didn't know another the presir vacation -- preservation order the order to keep this stuff and don't destroy it. well they didn't know about it. the only ones in washington, dc who didn't know about it. i it was all over television and the internet. there's actually federal law against willfully destroying public records. these are records that belong in the public and it's a crime to

ten months after a court order for the irs to keep lois learner's emails and backup files somebody destroyedisten to this donald. >> 422 tapes that likely contained ms. lerner's emails from the years 2010 and 2011 were erased and most likely will never be recovered. >> so what is the american public supposed to make of this? the irs, who many of us fear is destroying evidence potentially. >> they must think that the public is so stupid. i mean, to have a thing like that is just incredible. can you imagine if a conservative republican let's say that happened to a conservative republican even bush or somebody. that is so sad. you can imagine what was on those emails. i mean it would have been shocking. they probably figured this is the lesser of two evils. and it's just inconceivable that number one, they could do it and, number two, they'll get away with it. one of the reasons they'll get away with it because the republicans don't do anything about it. i'm a conservative republican. i'm more disappointed with the republicans because so many things -- the emails and so many things they just le

we've been going through this now since 2013 with lois learner and the targeting -- lerne rembings and the targeting -- lerner and the targeting scandal. they said they were going to produce lois lerner's emails. then they said, well, actually her emails, most of them are destroyed because, you see, they're held on these backup tapes and we recycle the backup tapes, we destroy the tapes so there's nothing we can do here, so we're just going to move along and we're not going to participate in any meaningful way with your investigation. most americans didn't accept that and it really wasn't worth the paper it was printed on in terms of an excuse. it was obviously much different than what the i.r.s. would impose on the taxpayer. but it was even more than that. it was more than just a weak excuse. it was false. once he said that the emails were destroyed, guess what? the inspector general for tax administration and the treasury department did basic due diligence and said i'm going to check to see whether or not weather he's telling the truth. and so what did the i.g. do? drove out to west

for information concerning the targeting and a former employee of the internal ref new service lois learner. when did this start? >> soon after the request came from congress. it's not unusual for us to gather together resources. >> i'm using the words you used. >> if i gave you the impression there was a title called special team that's probably not correct. >> i'm using what you said, special project team. >> a project team put together. >> you mentioned chief counsel. was the chief counsel at the internal revenue service part of the project team created shortly after it became known there was targeting going on? >> you would have to ask the commissioner about it. >> we'll do that. is it your assumption or do you believe -- you're the one that brought up special counsel both in your response to mr. chaffitz earlier. you think the chief counsel was part of the team? >> i think there were hundreds of attorneys part of the team. it was a production team. it was a way to enmass documents and mass produce them. >> you were asked about this. do you have any interaction before released informati

loris learner says i -- lois lerner said i learned it by watching you. others saying we are just down here on a mission of growth and creating lots of jobs, lots and lots of jobs. >> and the follow-up would be a thank you note from susan saying thank you for throwing me under the bus. i love those sunday morning shows. >> there is so much dirt to be had there i would love to read them all. >> larry, is this a big deal or a really big deal? >> according to whose side of the deal you are on. people say that the clintons think they are above the law. they don't just think it, they are. so far nothing that anybody has ever hit them with has stuck. they are as asbestos or teflon. if she gets the nomination, i think it might matter to the policy wonks and the politicos leading up to it. if she gets the nomination like romney's 47% that said they are going to vote they will vote for her anyway. >> because free cell phones? free servers maybe? think of the freebies. >> just a little tote bag like away from the voting booth. that would be neat. >> silicon valley

lois lerner emails were destroyed. he also says tapes that likely contained miss learner's emails were erased and most likely will neverered. erased around march 2014, a month after the irs realized there were missing emails and 8 months after the committee requested emails. how this affects this and who may be next in line to answer questions is a wide open question. but the headline at the moment, 422 tapes with lois lerner emails have been destroyed. martha: a florida man buys two paintings at auction that were originally murals on a prison wall. but taking them home is a challenge because the prison is about to be torn down and the murals are still on the prison walls. >> i had 12 years. so i just paint. >> reporter: on the walls of a deserted prison in rural florida are murals painted by al black which according to some experts are worth a small fortune. but even a bid of $75 has been withdrawn. >> these were for sale but we knew there would and challenge as far as getting them back of here. >> reporter: the murals are on 8-inch thick concrete walls. the prospect of trying to cut brace and transport the art has so

lois lerner's e-mails. more than 400 tapes said to have been completely lost still haven't been made public by the agency. the to reveal the exact number of e-mails. nearly two years ago learner admitted to targeting groups over the tax exempt status. >> severe thunderstorms marching east bringing flash floods to some areas. in louisiana flood waters from the rising red river swallowing houses. >> all of that rain stretching north. drivers in nashville getting stuck. several homes damaged high winds. maria molina tracking more wind. >> some other areas that have to deal with severe storms across northeast. pennsylvania and up state new york dealing with tornado warnings yesterday as the line of storms quickly raised. early this morning we are still tracking the storm system. you can see there are areas of rain across north carolina stretching up into parts of new england and further back across parts of west virginia and also the state of virginia. the storm system will continue to move eastward. there is potential for isolated weather in new england up state new york and across pennsylvania and northern new jersey. there's a second area we will be tracking as well across par