i'm back now with trial lawyer and former prosecutor debbie hines, horace cooper attorney, public policy research and former district judge la doris cordell. what do you make of this? >> the numbers tell everything. you have a system with these grand juries dealing with police officers that is not a fair one and the public knows it. there's a huge outcry for change and short of abolishing grand juries desperately reform is needed to make this process more transparent and accountable. so for example, if i can give you one example this california there's a bill sitting on governor brown's desk now a senate bill, i hope he will sign it and if he does, that bill with it prohibit prosecutors from convening grand juries when they are investigating officer-involved shootings or uses of expensive competitive force excessive force resulting in death. >> judges are in favor of that police and prosecutors are not. judge cordell as a judge why would you be opposed to it? >> well, i don't understand why. and i think judge lipman's reform just doesn't go far enough. i mean it still keeps the grand jur

and horace cooper, a fellow at the public policy research center.you think that this country has the will to move sfad forward and enable to live. >> i don't know that the country has the will. i know a discussion is happening. there seems to be movement with the states adopting paid family leave, and the conversation really turning to making the business case. it's happening. >> so california now have had the law on the books for a number of years, looking to expand the benefits, the conversation is starting, hillary clinton brought it up on the campaign trial. we are not hearing anything from the republican candidates. should we talk about this issue? >> we should talk ing about if, but not in the context of this is something we need to do. we should talk about what are we doing to encourage growth and job creation. in the state of texas we see migration from companies league california to go to texas. people talk about protections, there's a difference between the protections an employee earns and has. >> that is the concern that is raised when t