joining me, matt welch, editor-in-chief of "reason" magazine, ralph reed, founder and chairman of the safe and freedom coalition. matt reed, or ralph reed, i will start with you, i think we're a humane society. we want to do what is best for every person. we want to make sure they have the opportunity to succeed, but in doing so we have run a risk here. the risk is we're making it somehow more advantageous to not go to work, to not pursue something. >> right. trish: how do we, how do we navigate this in the way of policy? what could, should be done and should this be on on the agenda right now of republicans in this election? >> i think it should, trish, and i think your raising last night was one of the more important moments in the debate. what we really need, and rick santorum and a lot of other candidates on the stage talked about, the sort of nextwave in welfare reform. in 1990s, when i was at christian coalition we moved two people from welfare to work. we reformed welfare. we instituted time requirements. we instituted work requirements. why? we believed welfare created a cultu