mr. harrell: thank you. saying, i don by think the recently increased tempo of military strikes of the last month or so is having an impact. it is an important move interest reject direction of how to attack those. -- this. i think the fundamental change the u.s. faces there is because ins oil is largely produced small kinds of wells, and distributed widely and largely consumed in isis territory or sold to assad regime, it is really a military decision. the military set of tools are our first. i think that it probably took the administration some time to decipher the intelligence, to figure out where the assets are. what kinds of assets are available to strike those targets to get were to where we are today. i do hope that the increased tempo we're seeing will be contained and escalated going forward. i do think that is front and center the best way to target the source of revenue. >> increased military involvement would help going after isis target. what about the policing against isis's black-market activi

mr. harrell, i have heard from the intelligence -- i am not convinced, you said that one of the most effective ways of fighting isis is to launch attacks on its oil infrastructure. however cia director morel said on charlie rose here couple weeks ago that one of the , reasons the u.s. was not doing this was because of environmental concerns coming from the administration. do you think that made sense? mr. harrell: thank you for the question, clearly the administration has had a number of concerns over the last years as it thought about the operational tempo of attacks including the need to gather intelligence and knowledge about what collateral costs might be. whether to civilians or to future syrian production. certainly in my view right now, given the threat we are facing from isis, while it is important to consider collateral costs, the near-term benefit of taking

mr. harrell. you noted in your testimony that there is a flow of oil-related equipment that supports isil's revenue stream from oil and we should target on this oil-related equipment. do you have any thoughts on how the u.s. could best do that? for example, do we know who is supplying all these oil-related equipment and what they can do to stop them from continuing to sell this equipment to isil? >> thank you, senator. i think the answer to the second question is the information is obviously imperfect. and gathering additional information so that the treasury department can sanction the supply networks is valuable. and i think short of sanctions there are a couple of steps that can be taken. for example, reaching out to businesses, to traders in the region to make them aware of this problem and the potential sanctions, consequences if they do sell equipment to isil. the region is awash. some people will sell deliberately. some are sell to any buyer that comes across their door. and making sure the

mr. peter harrell. welcome. is the nonresident senior fellow for the atlantic council. we will wrap up the panel with mr. janie webster, the senior director for ihs. we appreciate you being here this morning. , --lly your contrition contribution, but ihs has been a great source. that you can sign remarks about five minutes. your full statement will be recorded. once you have included your testimony you will have an opportunity to ask questions from the numbers. -- members. you for thehank opportunity to testify today. ilam going to talk about iso the insurgency. we know it has been used for branding. terrorist operations tend to cost very little. i will focus on the big money, the insurgency. we will talk about what it costs operations, how does it cover those costs? what can we do to reduce those revenues? how effective those measures are likely to be. 's major costs? especially for fighters, and police and intelligence operatives. roughly there could be 80,000 of those individuals. u.s. intelligence agencies think there are about 30,000 fighters. month,assume $400 a we

mr. harrell.you noted in your testimony that there is a flow of oil-related equipment that supports isil's revenue stream from oil and we should target this flow of oil-related equipment, so do you have any thoughts on how the u.s. could best do that? for example, do we know who is supplying all these oil-related equipment and what we can do to stop them from continuing to sell this equipment to isil? >> thank you, senator. i think the answer to the second question is the information is obviously imperfect. and gathering additional information so that the treasury department can sanction the supply networks is valuable. i also think short of sanctions there are a couple of steps that can be taken. for example, reaching out to businesses, both the governments in the region and also the traders in the region, to make them aware of this problem and the potential sanctions, consequences if they do sell equipment to isil. the region is awash in it. some people will sell deliberately. some will sell to

mr. harrell.you noted in your testimony that there is a flow of oil-related equipment that supports isil's revenue stream from oil and we should target this flow of oil-related equipment, so do you have any thoughts on how the u.s. could best do that? for example, do we know who is supplying all these oil-related equipment and what we can do to stop them from continuing to sell this equipment to isil? >> thank you, senator. i think the answer to the second question is the information is obviously imperfect. and gathering additional information so that the treasury department can sanction the supply networks is valuable. i also think short of sanctions there are a couple of steps that can be taken. for example, reaching out to businesses, both the governments in the region and also the traders in the region, to make them aware of this problem and the potential sanctions, consequences if they do sell equipment to isil. the region is awash in it. some people will sell deliberately. some will sell to

mr. peter harrell. welcome. dr. sarah vakhshouri is the nonresident senior fellow for the atlantic council. we will wrap up the panel with mr. janie webster, the senior -- jamie webster, the senior director for ihs. we appreciate you being here this morning. we ask that you confine remarks to about five minutes. your full statement will be part of the record. once you have concluded your testimony, you will have an opportunity to answer questions from the members. dr. crane: thank you for the opportunity to testify today. i am going to talk about isil the insurgency. isil has a large number of affiliates. we know, unfortunately, many people swear allegiance to it. we know it has been used for afghan and asking -- elsewhere. terrorist operations tend to cost very little. i will focus on the big money, the insurgency. we will talk about what it costs isil to run operations, how does it cover those costs? what can we do to reduce those revenues? and we will talk about how effective those measures are likely to be. what

mr. harrell: thank you, senator, very much for the question. i should begin by saying in my assessment, most of the oil trade begins as cash-based. they are taking literal cash, u.s. dollars, things like that. which they stockpile. they keep much of that money in cash. it is heavily cash dependent. as the volumes of cash build up, isis will be looking for ways to move that out, whether it is for management purposes, to move money to affiliates, i think it is important to continue to deny them access to the formal financial systems. one of the important steps on that front that the u.s. treasury department has taken, the treasury department has gotten the iraqi central-bank to shut down the access of the iraqi bank branches in isis territory in iraq. they should be shut off from the formal financial system. but we are seeing various informal exchange houses, things like that, looking at ways to move money in and out of isis territory. i think it would go directly from isis to the financial system not very much. they have ways in the informal exc

mr. harrel, let's be brief because the chair has given us extra time. do you think the senate confirmation of mr. zubin would aid in the fight against isis. >> i do. i have had the privilege of working with adam zubin for a number of years when at the state department. he would be once confirmed an normsly effective leader. being confirmed in the job is different from serving in an active capacity. >> we need to aggressively target its use of the international financial system to sell oil and to move money around. congress doesn't look very serious about this threat when it indefinitely delays the confirmation of our top counter-terrorism financing official for months, for no legitimate reason. it is long past time to confirm adam zubin, to be undersecretary for terrorism and financial crimes. thank you, madam chair. >> thank you, senator warren. >>> with that, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for the time that you have given us and all that you have shared. good and helpful information. appreciate it. we standaryland when he visited a mosque today. this

mr. harrell. dr. vakhshouri. >> thank you chairman murkowski, ranking member cantwell. i would like to thank you for the opportunity to be here before your committee and discuss the important issue you posed. i'm looking forward to discuss this issue. i'm going to focus in my remarks today on iran's oil policy and return to the global oil market. i also should mention that this testimony and my remarks are my own views and not the atlantic council. iran and western powers after a decade of dispute over tehran's nuclear program reached a final agreement in july 14, 2015. iran being under different sanctions, it's getting ready to reintegrate into the energy market. in 2012, the eu put a ban on import of iranian crude oil. also sanctions on ensuring the tankers that were carrying iran and crude oil. they were coupled with u.s. sanctions on iran's oil revenue and export and all of this caused iran's oil export to cut by half. iran's oil export in 2011 was about 2.5 million per barrel and it dropped to 1.5 million barrels per day in 2012. also their production cut by 17% in

mr. harrell, let's be really brief because the chair hasv]Ñ already given us extra time here. o you think senate confirmation of mr. zubin will aid in our fight against isis? >> i absolutely think it would aid in our fight against isis. i've had the privilege of working with adam zubin for a number of years when i was at the state department traveling with him. he would be, once confirmed, an enormously effective leader leading those operations over at the treasury department. as we all know, being confirmed in the job is different from serving in an acting capacity. >> thank you very much. if we're serious about taking down isis, we need to aggressively target its use of the international financial system to sell oil and to move money around. congress doesn't look very serious about this threaty when it indefinitely delays the confirmation of our top counterterrorism financing official for months for no legitimate reason. it is long past time to confirm adam zubin to be undersecretary for terrorism and financial crimes. thank you, madam chair. >> thank you, senator warren. wit