linda alcoff. >> guest: well, thank you for your question. i'd make two points. one is that economists are still debating whether or not immigrant labor in the united states is adversely affecting wages in the united states. i mean, it's weird to explain that rather than the difficulty often unionization the united states and the low level of unions that kind crease wages. a lot of things are causing the decrease in wages. the second point i'd make is that when we talk about illegal immigration, we need to think about the relationship the united states has to the country that are producing such desperate refugees they're willing to leave their families and never sear their families again and take a peril journey into the united states. this isn't happen stance, this is something that has to do with just policy in mexico, and central america. for example, the united states, including hillary clinton, supported the coupe coup in mon tour ross -- honduras and labor leaders are been assassinated in the streets. so, the fact that these people are needing to leave thei

linda alcoff, you have approached this not from a statistician point of view but from a philosophical point of view. >> guest: yes. i think there's a lot of o

linda alcoff, you have approached this not from a statistician point of view but from a philosophical point of view. >> guest: yes. i think there's a lot of avoidance of this topic. i mean, the klan is not avoiding it. right? the extreme right wing is not avoiding the coming demographic changes in the country, but the liberal establishment avoids it and the left avoids it as well. and i think there are -- they're afraid to poke the bear, afraid to say this is the big deal. this country is going to change. they're afraid to talk about race and in relationship to what it means to be american or american identity or american exceptionalism. so, there's a lot of denial and avoidance, and i think we have to stop that. we have to find a way to talk about it and that's why i think philosophers can make a contribution despite the fact we're not social scientists but we can help provide concepts in a way to talk about what whiteness is, that's realistic, neither naive. >> host: you're wearing a bernie sanders button but you saw the left, including bernie sanders, is avoiding the topic. can you