[laughter] mr. chopa: well -- [laughter] mr. chopa: i will say though hat the issues of engaging borrowers and getting the incentives right is hard. especially when using private firms. there will be their own economic incentives. also, i would add that borrowers -- the process to walk through that, many borrowers need that individualized counseling that i think sometimes is just hard to deliver. many companies may not be set up to do that. i don't really know what the right answer is. ms. dynarski: they are not paid to do it. they have a contract with the department of education and if it's not paying them enough for the time that it takes to walk someone through an enrollment in an income-based program, that the contracting failure. mr. chopa: what we saw in the mortgage market was that many of those services working for other financial institutions or rusts. it did not work so well. so figuring out -- related to your point about payroll deduction, maybe there are ways to streamline the repayment issues and i know you have done

mr. chopa: there is 14 trilliony outstanding mortgage debt. mortgage lending context, there was a set of risky features as part of those loans that led to some potential cataclysmic events. there was in fact a subprime private student loan market that really blossomed in the years of just one subprime mortgage lending. most of the lending that is occurring is in the federal loan where fortunately people have access to these income driven repayment plans. i think that understanding how the mortgage market unraveled is important but there are also important differences and i think an important lesson is looking at servicing. we regulated role both mortgage servicers and student loan servicers. i was quite struck particularly with the private student loan servicers at the same type of deficiencies. servicing is a tough business but when it goes wrong for a really be quite devastating and it can lead to some suffering. i really encourage that there is a lot of interest in doing more to improve that