. >> guest: george cotter is the former chief scientist for the nsa. he was chief of staff of the nsa. he is now a man i believe in his early 80s, still has all his marbles, very, very sharp and is outraged by the failure of the power industry and congress to do very much to prepare for the danger of a cyber attack. george cotter, i am pleased to say, was enormously helpful to me in understanding some of the issues and the dangers. and i think a lifetime of working in u.s. intelligence with particular emphasis for the last years that he was at the nsa on cybersecurity, i think he's well placed to be someone we need to pay attention to. >> host: ted koppel, a lot of people know you from your iran hostage reports. a lot of people got to know you that way. nightline came about that way. the u.s. used stuxnet on iran. >> guest: yep. >> host: did that set a bad precedent, in your view? >> guest: no more than the bombing of nagasaki and hiroshima set a bad precedent. it clearly -- [laughter] from the japanese viewpoint, those were the most horrific weapons e