. >> joerg jesse: if someone says to himself it's a german fairy tale, if he doesn't commit any crimes anymore after release, it's okay. he can think about his imprisonment, what he wants. >> whitaker: joerg jesse is a psychologist by training. he's now director of prisons in mecklenburg-western pomerania, a state in north germany along the baltic, about the size of new hampshire. there are rich fields here, brilliant sunsets, and waldeck the maximum security prison where bernd junge is serving time. should he have a future for himself? he took a life. >> jesse: yes, he should. >> whitaker: he should? >> jesse: he should. >> whitaker: jesse invited us to waldeck to show us how the german system works. >> jesse: the real goal is re- integration into society, train them to find a different way to life without further crimes, life without creating new victims, things like that. >> whitaker: where does punishment come in? >> jesse: the incarceration, the imprisonment itself is punishment. the loss of freedom, that's it. >> whitaker: i think americans think crime and punishment. you say pun