it first started with apple ii.mily: you worked on the earliest mobile devices, like the precursors to this. at phillips, you started your own company, fuse. by the end of the decade, you probably knew more about mobile devices than literally anybody on the planet. tony: i just kept doing the thing i really love to do. emily: tell me about the first time you met steve jobs. tony: andy herzfeld, who was one of the founders of general magic, he had a birthday party. steve happened to be there and we talked for a few minutes. that was the first time i ever met him. but then the next time i met him was to give the pitch for the ipod. what would become the ipod. emily: you gave the pitch for the original ipod? tony: there was a whole team of us, but i was leading the charge in talking about what it was. it was literally a layout of what digital music could be, what the challenges were. there were three different concepts. and the one we always saved for the end was the one we thought was the best. it was the most expensi

i started programming when the apple ii computer first came out. think there is something intoxicating about the ability to program a machine, to code it to do things, and have immediate feedback, unlike other experiments that take time to learn. the learning cycle is so rapid when you program. emily: you graduated from stanford first in your class, -- class. you get a masters in electrical engineering an mba at stanford. , steve: i love to learn, and, that is what i love about being a venture capitalist, i am always learning. at school, i did not want to leave. i enrolled right from my undergraduate to my masters to a phd, which i didn't intend to take. it sort of happened. i eventually had to get a job, so i took off. i guess hoodies and dropping out was not as popular back then. emily: after you got all this schooling, you went on to work at apple. you worked for steve jobs at next, and he tried to recruit you at pixar. what was your relationship with steve like? steve: it was a short period of time, but it was pretty intense. he was someone who