i always kind of seems, always, for the past week i seems as like garry kasparov versus deep blue ibm and whether man or machine is the better hacker. we will skynet be here and how many of us will be left at the end? >> it's crazy. interesting, the winner of the grand challenge, a team that had a faculty member and other people associate with cmu, and the winning team is also from cmu and the actual played each other. the humans beat the machines this time that the machine did pretty well. >> let me get some tough on the cybercrime challenge. darpa industries of grand challenge is what they said we want to have, defcon has this capture the flag we have a team of humans that will have a series of computers and they will have to defend that system and try to patch it as well as going out and trying to attract all the other human teams that are playing. so darpa said can we do this autonomously so that we've got, it ended up, the finalists, seven files of supercomputers that had to be built and programmed by these teams, basically made up operating system. a program that would pretend t