the programs. but to also get a tutor or practice test were ready for college that leads metadata stark contrast with the of homogenization that becomes a college savings account so i would save you see the success of one state is harder to say the sky will fall and then to learn from each other and instead of coming from the top down. >> we have voucher programs at the higher level and then at the retail level. i very rarely hear anybody say i don't know about the pell grant. so why is there a disconnect how we finance higher education that is affordable but as a student you can go where you want? in how we finance cater 12 and to do some sort of public for pre-k form of a voucher model y that disconnect? >> it is a great question. i love 2.0 in any given day and then to say i faked a pass to do with the of politics here in the history of higher education that had such a flourishing landscape. and private institutions of higher education in there is a natural development there really was no politi

there are 26 voucher programs, 26 voucher programs, 21 tax credit scholarship programs, 9 individual tax credit and deduction programs, and there are 5 esa or educational savings account programs. and together these programs are helping more than a million school children and families. not to mention the millions more students attending public district, charter, home and online schools all of their parents' choice. d.c. didn't build any of those programs. citizens in the states did. and these programs are improving student achievement and introducing competition for students all at a fraction of what we're told we should be spending. more than 30 years after the creation of the u.s. department of education, students, taxpayers and the country are not better off. but we can be. after decades of waiving the constitutional barrier to a federal role in education under the guise of partnering with state governments, it is time to dissolve that partnership and apoloish the u.s. department of education -- abolish the u.s. department of education once and for all. thank you very much. [appla

it's how to grow the programs that create the programs. generally with programs we are the first out of the gate. but then we have the friendly rifle and they implement so we go back and forth which is great because the word that's how you promote continuous improvement. i would say i'm going -- usa is debatable. we will be celebrating toward the end of this month and just because we fund schools through government doesn't mean the government knows best. some people would say we should get a government completely out of it. that's going to take more than an hour. dealing with the way things are now, but i love about the education savings accounts as you know, education savings accounts basically all operate the same way. they don't pay for the simply informed the state and the state deposit of what it would have sent to the district or school and parents get a type of dedicated debit card and funds are disbursed quarterly. appearance have to actually submit receipts before more money is disbursed. so none of this in a somehow someone embez

doing a diff if program law-enforcement crime control programs. it was published in april i believe last month. >> i've ask yoi would ask you ty something about carper because so much has been done on the recent situation in the '90s and the role of the clinton administration and so tell us what happened. >> one of the things i argue in the book is that deregulation in the administration and the even stronger partnership forged between the public and private sector to solve social problems really begins to take hold in new ways of the administration. so we can see the transition to kind of the key regulatory policies of the administration emerging in the prior administration and i think that people don't necessarily discuss carter in that way. so, it was after johnson to nixon and ford administration we don't get this involvement as it i mentioned in the epilogue and to focus on addressing urban problems such as employment education etc. but with carter ends up doing, and this is reflective of where the goal priority is where and funding allocated

those that were previously on one program now are often on different programs. now, as a result of these changes, changes in the ei gc, medicaid expansions, food stamps replaced by staff, general assistance expanding. as a result of these changes we are spending more than ever. here we go. we are spending more than ever on those at the bottom. this slide indicates expenditures in 1996 and 2011. those were the years that are emphasized and be eden and schafer work. they say welfare is dead. by that they mean there isn't much being spent on welfare. well, if you take a look at these numbers, you see that we used to have a bunch of $20 billion programs. now snap is three times that big. ssi has doubled. unemployment insurance at the time they were looking is more than four times as big as it was in the earlier years. i didn't put down numbers for the child tax credit, or medicaid, child tax credit one from zero to $30 billion. medicaid went from about $150 billion to $300 billion. the death of welfare is greatly exaggerated. when the popular press and even my acade

those programs haven't been touched. they haven't been focused on, helping full truth from where they are from where they need to be. and so the progress that has been made over the last 20 years has opened our eyes to what we need to do next, and that means going beyond it, strengthening relationships with the child support enforcement program. what are other ways in which the lessons we learned about establishing paternity, setting expectations, can be applied to other programs that include food stamps or housing or how do we engage fathers? it's also about looking at other programs and how they're expecting work, or not expecting work, and how those things that together. for those of us at the ways and means committee, we have four themes that we see guiding us going forward to not only apply the lessons of tnf but to reapply them to the larger safety net across the programs. and it really continues to be expect work in exchange for benefits, preparing for work, doing something, getting out of the house. that piece re

those that were previously on one program now are often on different programs. now, as a result of these gc,ges, changes in the ei medicaid expansions, food stamps replaced by staff, general assistance expanding. as a result of these changes we are spending more than ever. here we go. we are spending more than ever on those at the bottom. this slide indicates expenditures in 1996 and 2011. those were the years that are andasized and be eden schafer work. they say welfare is dead. by that they mean there isn't much being spent on welfare. well, if you take a look at these numbers, you see that we used to have a bunch of $20 billion programs. now snap is three times that big. ssi has doubled. unemployment insurance at the time they were looking is more than four times as big as it was in the earlier years. i didn't put down numbers for the child tax credit, or credit onehild tax from zero to $30 billion. medicaid went from about one and your $50 billion to $300 billion. to $50 billion -- the death of welfare is greatly exaggerated. press and evenr my academic coll

we talked about things like jobs programs under the family support program. we had toyed with the work programs, of the work participation rate made it real. we had to change the culture, we had to do things differently. as congress thinks about what they want to do, i started at 100,000 feet and i'm not sure i didn't get anne's notes. when you big about the framework you have to think about the outcomes. in the original, we were about job placements and caseload reduction. we started thinking about things like wage rates and retention, and i was a retention is a great example of a good outcome, because it means you have the placement, you have that an income level, a participant satisfaction, employer satisfaction. there has to be agreement on the outcomes. there have to be incentives to drive the behavior. and there has to be aspects of the program integrity. finally, the work participation rate fits into the outcome discussion. i don't think it is working today the way people want it to. i think states are doing a lot of good things to put people to work b

patty the program director shows here today. >> part of our program is transportation to prepare the par transport from the program to your clients is costs us $24,000 a year for transportation and that's we're asking for one thousand. >> okay. thank you. >> thank you. any other questions or comments commissioner sims. >> yeah. looking at the four in totality there is catholic charities calls out alternative funding sources in relation to the dos funds here we do not the cost per client is a wide range when you divide the proposed number of clients served into the dollars we're awarding can you talk a little bit about the rationale behind those budget disparities theories more than 2 1/2 times. >> the programs are each different from each other catholic charities pace close to $25,000 a year in grant that includes the insurance for the facility catholic chiropractors program has been funded for longer some felt other programs i think back to the 90s to it is one of the first program in the city a historical funding of that granted going back to the 90s some of the other programs self

and in community programming? so, you know, how much causal weight do you put on black powers' insurgency into this sphere and, two, how -- you know, and you can punt on this one. it's difficult, but how would you even suggest, you know, a johnson administration, a nixon administration would be capable of navigating that dilemma, right? the sort of black militant, organized control of community control programs. >> so i think that's an excellent question, and you're right, a difficult one to answer. i mean, i think this terms of maximum teasebl participation, you know, johnson almost immediately a after the federal government begins funding these grassroots organizations like the wood lawn organization in chicago which was involved with the gangster disciples and gang membership supposedly, the question is, you know, to what extent -- as it was presented to the johnson administration, local officials really opposed this because they didn't want to cede their power to grassroots organizations. so eventually, as kin

so thank you. >> (clapping.) >> we'll have a few speakers but a quick program for more than a hundred years the city of san francisco as protected the public health but operating a combined sewer system it collects and cleans sewage sewage and street run off before returning to the bay and ocean over high strourld the southeast supplant that is the heart of city's system this planted and others parts are ending the years of their useful lives this is a multi billion dollars citywide investment building a seismically resident system one of the later projects undertaken by a city agency that agreement within the sf puc and labor unions will help us make sure those projects are delivered on time and on budget project deliver agreements with not uncommon for large projects what exists us the unique nature of that agreement and that about allow to focus economic benefits on community and workers that need it most and will help us cultivate and train the future workforce in the city and county and insures that - >> yes. >> (clapping.) >> - my bad; right? it insures the contractors pate prev

the program is from an afterwards program that aired earlier on the tv. sebastian follows at 9:00 p.m. with his book "defeating jihadi the winnable war". karen greenberg offers wrote justice the making of a security state. after that, lieutenant general michael flynn and the field up fight, how we can win the global war against radical islam and its allies. all of this tonight starting at 8:00 p.m. on book tv on c-span2. >> coming up next, we will show you a hearing on metropolitan areas that are believed to be at high risk for terrorism. a fema official testifies about a grant program for urban areas and orlando police chief and the sheriff of orange county florida also talk about their response efforts after june's attack at the pulse nightclub in orlando. oversight committee held this meeting early last month. >> good morning. and would like to welcome everyone this morning to the committee on oversight government to reform. of this morning, we are actually conducting a joint hearing with a subcommittee as transportation public assets and also the nati

our special program looks back the e senate debate over 1996 law. system urrent welfare has failed the very families it was intended to serve. >> washington journal is next. we'll take your calls and look at today's news. morning a conversation on political activism and protest in zimbabwe. garvey will announce he's seeking a residential pardon for his father's 1923 mail fraud conviction. that's live at 1 p.m. eastern. hour, editor in chief of reason magazine libertarian party president candidate gary johnson. he national political correspondent terrell starr with usion on millennials and minorities in the 2016 election. later scott anderson of the new magazine talking about his article on the arab world since the u.s. invasion of iraq. we'll all take your facebook comments and tweets. host: good morning, wednesday august 17, 2016. three-hour program today on "the washington journal" that will include our weekly segment, on magazine as well as a look at libertarian millennial and minority issues in campaign 2016. but we begin with the focus on issue

i get to stay in the program and complete the program. to get my certificate. >> the sheriff wants us to work with them to compromise. you have to give a little in order to get a little. i went ahead and gave him 14 days so he can graduate. inmate billiter has been there that long. only got three days. and not cleaning up your room, it's serious on a hygiene purpose but not as serious that i need to throw you under the jail. >> billiter will get to stay in the program, perhaps aided by a lie he told during his hearing. >> are you court-ordered? >> yes, ma'am. really that's the only thing that saved me. i'm really not court-ordered. i'm here to get my certificate to present to court when i go to court but i'm not court-ordered. i just said that and lied about it because i knew sort of what to manipulate. i manipulated that and it worked. everything's working out perfect. >> while billiter can look forward to his graduation day, brandon agner is looking forward as well. his current stay in the jail is the latest in a long string of arrests

be put on the program, period. they should either be put with family or almost they'd be better off in foster care. i really do. >> individuals entering into the witness security program, their parents are in danger. the children are therefore in danger. >> reporter: that's michael prout, head of the program, who granted us a rare on-camera interview. while he could not confirm nor deny anyone's existence in witsec, he said kids are better off in the program. >> we are the heros that come in the night a that bad spot. there are opportunities which we afford in the witness security program that they would not get by growing up in a terrorist organization or mafia or a cartel. they have an opportunity to live. >> reporter: jackie says the marshals gave her documents to support her new identity with the exception of one. that most people take for granted. >> we were never issued birth certificates. that's not part of the program. i will never have a birth certificate. witsec-given passport was lost, jackie had no way

that's not part of the program.ill never have a birth certificate. >> reporter: when her witsec-given passport was lost, jackie had no way to prove her u.s. citizenship. one day she received this in the mail. >> this is denying my children medical coverage. because i couldn't supply a birth certificate. >> jackie's citizenship does not exist. >> she says after exhausting all options she decides to walk away from the program and go public with her story, putting herself at possible risk. >> and you didn't fear for your life? >> i couldn't. my children are suffering because of it. so no, i had no fear at all. >> reporter: five years later, jackie says she finally received her replacement passport from the marshals. >> why might it take so long to get a needed document? >> in general, the witness security program endeavors to provide swift service to its participants. >> reporter: jackie's incredible story now even part of an upcoming documentary by rumor. >> it doesn't look like anybody is there. >> reporter: and afte

and 26 voucher program and 21 tuition tax credit programs range across 16 states.according to ed-choice formerly the freedman foundation have of american families now have a choice in their child's education. this is a tremendous victory for our families. much of that success is due to the ground work layed by melton freedman. as he wrote back in 1968 a far better alternative to political control is to introduce competition and school to go give parents a real choice. freedman would later argue we have so far only seen the early fruits from this introduction of vouchers from giving parents a choice. the best is yet to come as competition markets work their wonders. as we will hear today we are begin to go see the best come to fruition. growing innovation school choice has led to options through education savings account. milton freedman has the incredible foresight to make this prediction 61 years ago. the movement has been of parental empowerment, parents see the opportunity to exercise school choice. here is to discuss legacy of milton freedman and the school cho

a $4.6 billion program i know that has an engineer 70 percent of the cost is new construction i knew i had to make sure that we had harmony out in the fold and make sure we have quality contractor and employ people in the community so we reached out to the building trade and the unions and got the deal of $4.6 billion and the system program is a model of how successful programs could be rolled out and what is really amazing about the mroo is that in times hiring local people they stepped up we had a lot of specialized projects and how to get the community people to participate we went to the union they came up with a training program with people in the community to participate in the training and worked with the contractor to put them on projects that's the model in the community i want to applaud the union for coming abroad >> (clapping.) >> and not only that they're working to help small businesses get on board and role them of course, like them to be union but it is a great opportunity also want to thank my staff where is tommy? tommy the one that has the $7 billion i'm sure he go

i am also happy to hear the working towards expanding the program and seeing how we get the program enrolled in a quicker way i think going from 50 to 75 is a very positive way to go. i don't see them getting up to 75 because the policies in place that will keep them from getting to that 75 number right away i think it's a good step in the right direction instead scaling back to residential just figuring out how to get that same amount of numbers while building more into this mix. the staff has figured out how to address that and get some of the hetch hetchy power to help supplement the needs your water team will tell you that you never know if next year will be a drought are not. you never know if you have that drought have that energy available. i think that your staff is an excellent job and i congratulate them on doing so. >>tany other public comments on this item? thank you.anything else from the general manager? >>next item is theall matters listed hereunder constitute a consent calendar, are considered to be routine by the san francisco public utilities commission, and will be acted u

you have a new program. you wrote an essay about this. >> it's -- we have been saying for years that we are going to prevent abuse, reduce it, but now i really believe, we really believe we can actually end it in our generation. we have a terrific program where we provide support for families in crisis. we focus on five protective factors, and these are things that people have researched and defined that families need in order to keep their kids safe. so parent resiliency -- whether or not a parent can weather the ups and downs of life at any time in any crisis. a child's resiliency, or social/emotional competencies. whether or not a parent understands age-appropriate behavior, and whether or not a family has social connections, or are they so deeply isolated maybe because of violence or mental-health issues that they can't seek help, and finally we look at concrete support, so basic family needs -- food, clothing, shelter. these things together help keep kids safe, and we have a fantastic program that we're

rental choice programs. he has authored and co-authored two books and two dozen articles and chapters on school choice and campaign finance. he has designed, managed results that employ a wide variety of research numbers including experimental and qualitative investigation techniques. a 1987 graduate of st. thomas, he received his degree from harvard in 1985. next, we have virginia walden forest, a visiting fellow at the heritage town nation. she took up the cause of school choice after her son received a private scholarship. she mobilized thousands of parents and culminated in the d.c. option scholarship program in 2004. next, we have jonathan butcher who served as the education director for the goldwater institute. he researched education policy of school choice program at the state and national level. he was the director of accountability for the south carolina public charter school district, south carolina's only turner school authorizer. he worked as a school choice demonstration project in washington d

they did briefly appear on the landmark work program several years ago and no longer on the work program and of source imminently threatened. thank you very much. >> thank you, any other member of the public wish to comment? if so please come forward. >> good afternoon commissioners. my name is steve [inaudible] a tenant at 10 6 south park, the grand orienta hotel and member of the lodge. i'm not here representing in any capacity the grand orienta or the [inaudible] lodge, just here as a citizen. the purchase property of 106 south park was in 1920 when newly arrived filipinos were sent over from the philippines for cheap labor and many of them came to san francisco and they could not find other places to live. somehow they were able to buy the property at 106 south park and for $6 thousand. they sweated and worked hard, this is their pride and joy. they treated of this property-it is great honor for you if you designated this property and to preserve it in their memories and for the history of the filipino community here in san francisco. thank you so much. >> thank you. any other member

if you look at state tanf programs they're mostly job search programs. they are job search requirements without a lot of help to help people actually overcome the barriers and help them make the transitions. we need to think about, what are the pathways that really will work to help that group of families get to work. ron's idea of wafers to get waivers. one i want to start to start, no way to accomplish things if you don't change the way states can spend their funding and some of it is taking away some of the flexibility they have. two sort of recommendations here. one is requiring states to direct more of their tanf funds to tanf score purposes. so right now nationwide it is about half. you will find states all over the map. some are higher, some are lower and really trying to think about how can you really push states in the direction so that they are spending more on those core purposes. and the other is we know that the block grant has lost its value. it is about 30% less than it was what it was initiated. thinking about how you can begin to add fun

even though the program's status is in limbo. opponents of the program say that's the wrong move. ((adriana martinez/educate nevada now: "we don't know what the supreme court is going to opine in this case, and at this point, so you cannot continue to sell this program.")) ((patrick walker)) "educate nevada now" is opposing the e-s-a program on the grounds that money is being drained from public schools for private education. that's the premise of the lawsuit that led a carson city judge to put an injunction on the program. outside of that... opponents are concerned about what would happen if the state supreme court rules in favor of the state... and parents pull their children from public schools. ((annette magnus/executive director, battle born progress: "i think it's a huge disruption, and i think the court should have decided this already so that we the decision is.")) ((patrick walker)) and if the program is struck down... those who have already pulled their kids from public schools could be on the hook for the bill if their child has been accepted into private schools. for p

, particularly to the entire programs rather than cash programs. we would away from giving people cash and increased giving people the types of benefits, housing, medicaid which is the biggest of all these programs, job training programs, education programs, food stamps and so on are altogether. the same time, the question comes up what we have done in terms of poverty. again this blue line is when welfare reform kicks in. the top line, the light blue line that goes across, that is the official poverty rate from the census bureau. the other lines are the spending which continue to rise. what you see is that immediately after welfare reform, declined comment measured by the official census measurement, poverty rates went down. but then as a graduate has begun to move back up again, went up quite a bit with the great recession, has no level of a little bit again but over all it's still rough they where it was, although it back to the beginning of the war on poverty and see that the official census bureau poverty measures have not moved a whole lot. o

tell us how this program began 20 years ago. >> the program began 20 years ago.nder was an environmentalist and an activist and an artist in the 1970's. she started these street sweeping campaigns in the city. she started with kids. they had an exhibition at city hall. city officials heard about her efforts and they invited her to this facility. we thought it would coincide with our efforts to get folks to recycle, it is a great educational tool. since then, we have had 95 professional artists come through. >> how has the program changed over the years? how has the program -- what can the public has an artist engage with? >> for the most part, we worked with metal and wood, what you would expect from a program like ours. over the years, we tried to include artists and all types of mediums. conceptual artists, at installation, photographers, videographers. >> that has really expanded the program out. it is becoming so dynamic right now with your vision of interesting artists in gauging here. why would an artist when to come here? >> mainly, access to the materials

, the voucher program, and the section eight rental program. that is the majority of hud's budget. ust: erika poethig is with for the next 25 minutes or so. special lines for this segment -- host: if you want to look at some of the numbers are some of the charts we have been talking about, it is urban.org. janet in washington, a renter. good morning. husband died in 1970. is -- he was on section eight in washington while i lived in ohio. had noed me when i surgery, and he lost his section eight. i moved to washington. he tried to get back on section eight. there is a very long waiting list, and he has not been able to get on it. he is homeless. he cannot work. i cannot let him stay here ,ecause i am renting a place and i am not allowed to have anybody else live here. him.e nobody to help with his health problem, he should not be homeless. i do not know what to do. he has been trying to get on section eight, but he is just not able. janet, i know, again, i am very sorry to hear about your son's situation and your own situation. unfortunately, se

we have also in this program given the state the ability to run their own program. we believe that the federal government does not have all of the wisdom and that the states should run their program. what we have done is give a program -- we have taken a federally run program and we have taken the funding we have spent on that program, and we have given that money to the states, so that rather than having one program, each state in the union can tailor its program to meet its individual need. i believe we have put together a positive program. it is a program that asks people to work. it is a program that tries to make a americans independent. it is a program that for the first time uses work and family to try to help families as kate -- escape welfare and poverty in america. >> the signing ceremony for the welfare law took place on august 22 in the white house rose garden. speakers included little rock, arkansas, resident lili hardin who was invited to the white house to tell her story about moving from welfare to work. reminder, if you would like to watch this enti

it is a temporary program. we are going to help you for up to five years, we are going to train you but at the end of five years, you are going to have to work. we have also in this program given the states the ability to run their own program. we believe that the federal government does not have all the wisdom in the world and that states should run their program and what we have done is to give a program -- we have taken a federally-run program and taken the funds that we have spent on that program and we have given that money to the states so that rather than have one program, each state in the union can tailor its program to meet its individual need. i believe that we have put together a positive program. it's a program that asks people to work, it's a program that tries to make americans independent. it's a program that for the first time uses work and family to try to help families escape welfare and to escape poverty in america. >> the siding ceremony for the welfare law took place on august 22nd in the

we have fantastic public programs coming up. gravity can tell you about that. >> yes, please. >> sure. i want to mention our family programs are very vision -- very vigorous and robust for our department. there's a gallery guide for this manuel you use in the gallery to interact in different ways with the ideas of the exhibition. also, they're doing a bunch of mindfulness workshops. they're asking you to come in the gallery and draw in on nature and mindfulness. >> you remind me every cultural institution as part of the core looks how art interacts and society and how there's a dynamic dialogue. education, whether symphony or ballet or museum, the contemporary jewish museum thinks seriously about the education component of art. usually it's focused on a particular current exhibit. i want to know if you can give a peek into, how do you think ability the educational aspect of the art piece focused on any particular exhibit. in this case, the piece on the wheel. you were talking about ways in which that is educational for folks. ho

what's it really like to be in the witness protection program? a rare glimpse through the eyes of children forced to live in secrecy. >> ushered into black vans. >> now all grown up, they're asking was the protection worth >>> plus, noah galloway's remarkable journey from the battlefield to the ballroom. ? revealing how the dark struggle of losing an arm and a leg in iraq led him to living a life with no excuses. >>> and tyra banks trades the catwalk for the classroom. heading to stanford's business school to teach. does this model-turned-mogul note i w ? i want to be on top ? >> first the "nightline 5." >> use dulcolax tablets for comfortable relief of hard stools. dulco dulcolax, designed for dependable relief. >>> we make lots of compromises for our pets. never when it comes to their food. at petco we offer leading grain-free for our best companions only the best will do. petco. >> number one in just 60 hello! it's our new intern, bart's first week here at td bank, he's a robot from one of those other banks. we're training him to bank human. i

i think that's a worthwhile program. >> the programs include computer, literacy, ged, and drug and alcohol rehabilitation. >> i hear what you say and i understand what you say. >> but one program aims to reach inmates by fostering and taking responsibility for others. operation new hope uses nonviolent offenders to train dogs that the local humane society considers difficult to adopt. >> this is class number 30, and what we hope to achieve by this is we want to save these dogs' lives. >> lieutenant brooks is one of the jail's training officers. he also founded an overseas operation new hope. >> all these dogs at one point in time had been slated to be euthanized. the reason that they're not euthanized is that you guys have agreed to come into this program and obedience train these dogs. >> these two are puppies. that means that they're still in development mode. >> the inmates are coached by the humane society's behavior mod any indication instructor, jennifer messer. >> you can train dogs. everybody is a team. >> we're correcting all the problems that causes a dog to get taken to the huma

patty the program director shows here today. >> part of our program is transportation to prepare the par transport from the program to your clients is costs us $24,000 a year for transportation and that's we're asking for one thousand. >> okay. thank you. >> thank you. any other questions or comments commissioner sims. >> yeah. looking at the four in totality there is catholic charities calls out alternative funding sources in relation to the dos funds here we do not the cost per client is a wide range when you divide the proposed number of clients served into the dollars we're awarding can you talk a little bit about the rationale behind those budget disparities theories more than 2 1/2 times. >> the programs are each different from each other catholic charities pace close to $25,000 a year in grant that includes the insurance for the facility catholic chiropractors program has been funded for longer some felt other programs i think back to the 90s to it is one of the first program in the city a historical funding of that granted going back to the 90s some of the other programs self

patty the program director shows here today. >> part of our program is transportation to prepare the par transport from the program to your clients is costs us $24,000 a year for transportation and that's we're asking for one thousand. >> okay. thank you. >> thank you. any other questions or comments commissioner sims. >> yeah. looking at the four in totality there is catholic charities calls out alternative funding sources in relation to the dos funds here we do not the cost per client is a wide range when you divide the proposed number of clients served into the dollars we're awarding can you talk a little bit about the rationale behind those budget disparities theories more than 2 1/2 times. >> the programs are each different from each other catholic charities pace close to $25,000 a year in grant that includes the insurance for the facility catholic chiropractors program has been funded for longer some felt other programs i think back to the 90s to it is one of the first program in the city a historical funding of that granted going back to the 90s some of the other programs self