it is easy to think about phishing or spear phishing or influencing humans. i would be happy to show my screenshots if anyone is still interested in that. >> is there a sense of the size of these markets? how is it tied to other illicit markets? ms. ablon: that is a great question. that was one of the questions we asked almost every person. the answers ranged from -- it is similar to the size of a small country to, i have no idea to an example of one of the bigger forums where credit cards were sold that was taken down years ago and had 70,000 to 80,000 people on it. it was so tight and connected to traditional crime for other illicit drugs and activity -- it is really difficult. getting the size was a question we wanted to know, but we could not get. >> we will have one final question and then let lily show some of those screenshots. 1960's, 1970's, 1980's, perhaps 1990's, we had police officers who patrolled the streets, did foot beats, perhaps even in our high schools. i'm wondering where the crime was? when we look at the amount of calls for service, whet

this room, i suspect, at your respective employers has received an e-mail that is an attempted spear phishing. and simply by not opening the e-mail or the attachment to the e-mail looks suspicious to you, or you don't recognize, can make a huge difference. this is a general comment. the most devastating intrusive attacks by the most sophisticated actors often originate with a simple act of spear phishing. employee and employer awareness and education can raise that bar and make a huge, huge difference. in dhs, for example, we run exercises where we'll send employees e-mails like "free washington redskins tickets. click here" and the excited redskins fan clicks on the attachment, they're told to report at a certain time and place to pick up their free redskins tickets, and they get a cybersecurity lecture, instead. so there's that. observation and comment number two. whether in government or the private sector if there's an incident call us right away. contact the department of homeland security right away. to get us in this there early. whether without a private security expert or with a priv

it is easy to think about phishing or spear phishing or influencing humans. i would be happy to show my screenshots if anyone is still interested in that. >> is there a sense of the size of these markets? how is it tied to other illicit markets? ms. ablon: that is a great question. that was one of the questions we asked almost every person. there is no concrete answer. the answers ranged from -- it is similar to the size of a small country to, i have no idea to an example of one of the bigger forums where credit cards were sold that was taken down years ago and had 70,000 to 80,000 people on it. it was so tight and connected to traditional crime for other illicit drugs and activity -- it is really difficult. getting the size was a question we wanted to know, but we could not get. >> we will have one final question and then let lily show some of those screenshots. >> in the 1960's, 1970's, 1980's, perhaps 1990's, we had police officers who patrolled the streets, did foot beats, perhaps even in our high schools. i'm wondering where the crime was? when we look a