steve clemens to lead the conversation. >> greetings, everybody, i'm back and don't forget you're going to get to ask the first question so -- back here. karen greenberg is the author of rogue justice, a book -- and we wanted to note for you in advance because she's cool, you'll be signing your books for those who want them after. so we're thinking 15 years, what has happened and a lot of our discussion has focused on getting the bad guys, i'm interested in what the state of our soul is. part of the equation was targeted killings, rendition, drones, a whole new infrastructure of dealing with detainees in guantanamo and, karen, i want to ask you, you know in the waves of fear that drove a lot of decisions on how we deal with people we identified as enemies, whether they were or not, what is the state -- what is the price we've paid as a society for that? >> big. the price we've paid is much more than we can imagine, i think, and i can talk about this a little bit. there are things that we now accept as a country that we never would have accepted on september 10, 2001, 15 years ago. >> like? >> the most obvious, the low-hanging fruit is, of course, tort