bob, interesting thing is knights road overpass, that is likely where the black isis under where this bus hit because there was a patch of black ice our man jared vol spotted earlier and then spotted skid marks right after that, as the septa driver was trying to regain control. when you have these overpasses , especially a busy one like this, near the old franklin mills mall, i will always call it that, bob, you get melting but how often do you see ice sickles develop because the melting from the road above goes down to the road below. if we have melting things on top and it is liquid and dropping down, drop by drop all night then it retreeses on the road i have ice patches on these overpasses and then on top of that even when sun comes out later the sun doesn't hit what is under overpass because it is block by obvious overpass so you'll have icy spot under these overpasses. be forwarn. trying on the vine street express because you see trip, trip, trip on your windshield when trying under there and then those drops, become ice on a cold morning like this so a big mess out here, and ho