in new york city, i'm rhana natour for the pbs newshour. >> woodruff: finally tonight, a conversationut changing the way we think about health care. in a article in the latest issue of "the new yorker" titled "tell me where it hurts," doctor atul gawande, a surgeon and author, makes the case for the value of incremental medicine to deal with chronic conditions. it's the kind of medicine that is rarely hailed as heroic measures. william brangham spoke with dr. gawande recently and asked him about what's changed. >> when you think about the future of health care and where we're going at this moment of debate there's a transformation going on that involves a recognition that our focus in medicine has been on heroic interventions like the kind i do now as a surgeon but the biggest gains are coming now from incremental medicine, from a commitment to the kind of steady, overtime management of complex problems like chronic illnesses that can add years to people's lives, but that's work done by some of the people with the least resources in our healthcare system. >> so who practices increment