he saw the development to mass incarseration. that is the thing, we -- the irony, frankly t is the lunacy. of sessions comparing marijuana to heroine. we know why, it was a racist policy to begin with. i mean, you have crack use in the streetings, cocaine use in the suites, it leads me to ask, how much damage has been done? how bad is the damage? >> it is terrible. it is, i mean, people talk about this as being the civil rights crisis of our generation, i became a public defender even then t in the 19 niptds, we could see, when i joined the public defender's office in d.c., that point in time, the united states passed south africa and russia as the world's leader in incarceration. we have left everyone else way behind. we have had a situation where, even despite the advances of the rights movement, the rate of african american incarceration has increased. when i became a public defender, one in two people in prison were african american. that number has gone down in the years since. 2.2 million people in prison. seven million und