civil war when people talk about founders, they didn't mean washington and jefferson, they meant john winthrop, william bradford, john smith. the founders of the colonial, 17th century founders. after the civil war, and i think largely as a result of lincoln's foundation, the founders become the men that we celebrate. i think it's an interesting transformation. >> you've written this -- on this point, and i'll get back to your writing style, but you've written this and it's been said about you time and time again by book reviewers, professors, your colleagues, that a lot of historians found the founding to be kind of dull and not worth writing about. it's already been explored, especially post 1776, but you were different. you devoted a half a century to writing and studying about the founding. what made you see it differently than almost every other historian of the time and see that it wasn't a dull period after 1776, that was just a first inning? >> well, that's a good question. i think i was -- when i came to brown there were only nine members in the history department, and we didn't have

john winthrop is the real origin of the city on the hill, 1630, and it's actually the perfect city on the hill for winter because a medieval city of inequality. it's not what we want. but the idea is that america can influence the world not by invading with other armies but by perfecting the values and institutions that we have here. it is an isolationist posture. washington -- you know, washington's farewell address is the isolationist message. >> warning us about entangling alliances. >> washington is feasible now. it's impossible for the superpower to retreat from their responsibilities of the world. but i do think some form of neoisolationism, meaning we're going to stay in nato, we're going to play a role in the world bank, we're going to have responsibilities to the world, but the highest form of influence we can have is not military, but the soft power and the strength of our own political institutions and our own economy. and that's what washington believed. >> of all your books, would you say one of them is your favorite? was one of them particularly easy to write, and was on

we baby boomers were taught by perry miller and a host of textbooks that john winthrop keynote -- was the 1637 with the keynote address of american political culture that laid out the unique notions of american exceptionalism and heavenly mission, and that of course was conventional wisdom during the cold war when americans needed to be persuaded by their elites to make global commitments. today, we know better, or some of us do. thanks to the rhetorical archaeology of historian richard gamble who sadly obscure book in search of the city on a hill, the making and unmaking of an american myth has proven the civil religious trope derived from winthrop's sermon was in fact a 20 century invention, an artifact of america the crusader state. it was not an archetype of america the promised land. if you are curious about that, you can asked me during the q&a, but meanwhile, i had begun to trace the acr to its real source, which not surprisingly was british civil religion, painfully crafted over 175 years of tudor stuart history. first thing that came to their church by placing the monarch at

led by john winthrop, the puritans fled to massachusetts to create their own heathen.e the pilgrims did to them, puritans vanished. he decided to settle in rhode island with his followers. notice the pattern? this scenario served as a catalyst for more of its kind. pennsylvania became a haven for the quakers, maryland for the catholics, virginia for the angelic in church. -- angelican church. >> it's safe to say that america was founded by religion, but the irony is clear. these religious groups and undisturbed freedoms, but condemned those who thought differently. the bill of rights decided to directly address this issue. >> the constitution makes no lot respecting the establishment of religioun. >> freedom of religion, freedom of expression is another key belief in the united states. while groups may not get along, they are entitled to their beliefs. >> however this has been no picnic. religious ideas are being put to the test with issues like legalization of drugs, abortion, tax evasion, and homosexuality. this is kim davis, the county clerk in kentucky. she refused

led by john winthrop, they fight to massachusetts to create their own haven bid like the programs did to them, the puritans banished freethinkers like roger williams. he went to rhode island with his followers. notice the pattern? it served as a catalyst for more of his kind. marilyn for the catholics, virginia for the church of england. >> it is safe to say that america was essentially founded by religion, but the irony is clear. these religious groups cryptically freedom to -- crave the freedom to practice their beliefs but condemn those who thought different way than they did. the bill of rights addressed this issue. >> the constitutional make no law recognizing an establishment of religion or preventing the free exercise thereof. >> freedom of religion, freedom of expression, it is another key belief in the united states. while groups may not get along, they are all entitled to their beliefs. >> however come this has been no picnic. religious ideas are being put to the test with this use such as legalization of drugs, bush and -- abortion, and of course from homosexuality. this is