but denozo in creating that team, i saw the way mark harmon fostered -- probably as a result of years of experience from ensemble shows as well. he wanted everyone to trust their instincts and bring those instincts into the play that we were doing. whether you're blocking a scene, you know -- don't just stand on your mark and say the line. you've got to bring your feeling to it. and your own unique perspective. so i had a great mentor and teacher in harmon. and i tried to bring all those things. and then my own nuanced understanding of how things work. i was surprised how -- the more dialogue i got, the less of a leadership i felt coming from the character of bull. so that was a big journey for me was to realize, the less you say might actually be more important. i was always fighting for lines, i'm a pretty verbose guy. but i learned a lot about the role inside the show creatively, but also, you know -- it was all work and no play. and i don't think i became a dull boy, but i was a tired boy by the end of it. >> i try to juxtapose these two things. i hear you but i want to follow you