the allure for me about marcus conway is that he's an engineer and engineers make the world. heaven and earth and then he hands it over to engineers. and engineers make the world, and i was interested in seeing this man, who has this complete involvement with the world he makes, and that. so that was what i found attractive about him. well, you talk about the engineering, you also dropped in god there, and of course the book unfolds on all souls' day, the idea that there are these souls drifting around all over the place. it begins with the tolling of the angelus bell and that bell seems to toll right through the book. i mean, you talk of its rhythmic character and the way it rolls on, and i suppose the sound of that as a kind of call to prayer, it really goes right through the book from beginning to end, doesn't it? the book is an hour long and it's suspended between two temporal markers. one is the divine marker at 12 o'clock and the other is the temporal marker for the one o'clock news at one o'clock, so the book is spanned between... it's an hour—long but in that hour he

. >> well, ruth marcus, maybe, i, correct me if i'm wrong, i sense kellyanne conway potentially trying to move the goal post. she adds we were promised, the media the critics have promised, we were promised evidence of collusion. she added in that statement there, collusion that clearly impacted the outcome of the election. and if that's the standard you end up setting on all this with all the respations we seen and maybe more to come. that's ultimately an unprovable thing. whatever you could ends up establishing the trump campaign did x, the russian government promised y. you can never establish. that 28,000 were changed here, that's ultimately an unprovable standard she is setting. >> and it's ridiculous and it's not a standard that anybody has set out for why we need various investigations, why mueller needs to be able to continue to do his job. she might as well have been carrying the goal post-herself over her shoulder moving tell when she said that. but the bigger point here is that when they teach crisis communications in future years, they're going to look at this episode in th

. >> well, ruth marcus, correct me if i'm wrong but i sense kellyanne conway there trying to move the she adds there, not just the idea of we were promised, i think she's saying the media, the citizenics, we were promised evidence of collusion. she added collusion that clearly impacted the outcome of the election. if that's the standard you end up setting on all this, with all the evidence we've seen and maybe more to come, that's an unprovable thing. whatever you could establish between the trump campaign did x, the russian government promised y. if you could even establish that. we'll never be able to say 28,000 votes were changed here, 100,000 were changed there. that's an unprovable statement. >> and it is ridiculous and it is not a standard that anybody has set out for why we need various investigations. why mueller needs to be able to do his job. she might as well have been carrying the goalposts herself over her shoulder. moving them when she said that. but the bigger point here is that when they teach crisis communications in future years, they're going to look at this sxeps t