still with me as michael collins, priya, and nick from janis henderson investors.umer discretionary space, this is the most traded debt. the volume of it is ridiculously high. everyone's talking about it in the current space. -- the credit space. if someone put that credit in front of you now, what would you say back to them? michael: it's highly traded because it's exciting and there's a lot of news and a lot of volatility. the markets are looking for a volatile story they can trade around a little bit. in light of the low volatility environment. earlier this year, there was reduced exposure to the auto rental space, auto rental asset backspace, and even the auto space and the auto supply space to some extent because it looks like that whole sector has maybe already peaked this cycle. jonathan: nick, your thoughts? nick: i would agree with michael. i am a bond investor and i am looking at capital protections, some form of income generated the -- generation. i want some stability and my -- in my portfolio where we can income -- collect accrued income on an ongoing