. >> tim neftali, the extraordinary thing is how this has really come out as rick perlstein says, they're being this blay about the about what they're talking about. i want used to be quieter, right? >> it used to be. i want to make a point about that statue, okay, because one of the problems we have in america is we don't deal with our history well. we have these moment where liberty expands and when a country undergoes real social change, and it's at those moments you get this reaction. that statue is from the '20s. not from 1880. why the '20s? this was after world war i and there had been enormous social change. you had the second coming of the kkk. the 1960s we saw the return of the stars and bars. why? because of a fear among white supremacists that they were losing their country, and we're getting it gone. the one thing to keep in mind is we have this psych until this country of terrible reaction. and each time it's a test of moral courage on the part of our leaders. senator orrin hatch is not running for president. he showed real courage. president trump showed moral cowardice yest