today on talk to all dizzy about former president de klerk and what happened to the lofty goals of the one nine hundred eighty. but we begin with nuclear weapons today as the world is dealing with north korea and looking for a way out it may be worth remembering that south africa was the first country to voluntarily dismantle its nuclear bomb. we start by asking him what prompted his country to develop the weapons in the first place why did you need the bomb and did you really believe that one day you might have used that bomb against who. i don't think we needed the ball but some of my pretty said it's just that i don't think it was everything to incent to use the bow they wanted to use it as a deterrent and to strengthen south africa's international position when i became at a fairly young age minister of mineral and energy affairs i was informed about this cabinet never knew about our atom bombs being made at that un dhaba so at the time it was a secret thing it would be only mean to me need to know basis people knew about even ministers even minister us but as minister of the and e